New Daily Driver AWD wagon, MT, 10-15k

[cyclist]

Starting to plan my return to the states when someone buys my pan-am rig (http://www.expeditionportal.com/for...-Bronco-Camper-for-Sale-Peru-Ecuador-Columbia)

I am a car guy, not a truck guy, and want something that does a bit of everything without breaking the budget. My last car was a v6 5spd passat wagon, which was great, fun to drive, good enough milage and about the right amount of space, but it was FWD and no ground clearance for my MTB and skiing trips and 1500/year in the shop to keep running. I am looking for something similar in size for 3-4 adults plus weekend gear, and still fun to drive and 20+ mpg while having a bit more capability. We are also planning on moving to the rockies so light forest service use will be common, but real off roading will happen on 2 wheels (have a mtb want to buy a moto). I also require, non negotiably a manual transmission, I have hated driving the auto in our tundra and
Budget is 10-15K, cheaper is better, but I am willing to pay more to save cash in repairs.

First thought is an outback XT but these are not great on gas and have some issues with service/repair plus crappy handling. Still the top choice but I know the shop bills will add up almost as fast as the passat. The H6 doesn't come with a stick, and the 2.5 will be underpowered at elevation. Foresters are about the same money and seem less nice, but will be considered as well. I like the 05-09 bodies and hate the new ones, and they are above budget anyway.

I love the handing of the german wagons, do any of them sit high enough for forest road duty? Allroads are really cool but I want a car that works all the time and they are too gimmicky/expensive. I could be happy with another passat or a4/6 but they all sit low and are expensive to keep up. Anyone taken a 3 or 5 series wagon on dirt roads? I could be convinced to blow the budget for one of these if they will get me to my trailheads.

Did volvo XCs come with a stick at any point? I have always liked these cars and my dad had a v70r for a while which was fun.

Did the saab 9-5 come awd/manual also seems like a cool option, but again pretty low.

Anyone every try a mild lift on a wagon for this usage?

I would consider a more SUV type platform if it had the manual, good road manners and gas milage, but this seems unlikely. Looking for suggestions as I tend to like rare cars and it will likely take a while to find one. Suggestions appreciated, or I will end up doing suspension mods on an outback.

 

[jessejman]

I love my 2000 BMW 325 wagon. It's been super reliable and I find it easy to work on. I found it in a 5spd which is fairly uncommon. It's seen a few dirt roads and performed well but you have to be very very careful not to drag on rocks. I've often thought that if I lived out west I'd want an XI (awd) and put some taller springs on and fab up some light skids. I've seen some guys rally the XI and they seem to lift the 3 series fairly easily and cheaply. That's my 2 cents.

But, the easiest thing to do is just bite the bullet and buy a Sube. There's almost no way around it. To my knowledge the Volvo XCs never came manual and I'd stay away from the Allroad though with a spring conversion it would get simpler - and I know this is a common mod.

 

[FurthurOnTheFly]

Why not pick up a newer Jetta TDI wagon and install a lift kit...there are some out there. You still won't get the AWD, but you will have everything else including superior gas mileage. There is no free lunch, so pick whatever is most important to you.

 

[glock_19]

Everything you posted here screams Outback to me. I've driven a 2.5 through Big Cottonwood Canyon up to 10,000' and power wasn't really an issue.

 

[Warn Industries]

You could get a new Suzuki SX4 AWD for nearly that price. Not going to be terribly powerful (150 hp), but decent on gas and different. I've owned two of them. Good little rigs.

- Andy

 

[Applejack]

Every car mentioned, other than the Outback seems like they may be too low and needing a lift, which would probably compromise the handling that you desire.
If the ground clearance is not really that much of an issue may I suggest another offering from Subaru which is the Legacy GT wagon. It has all wheel drive, of course and will handle far better than the Outback or the XC Volvo's.

 

[p nut]

Outback or Forester. Best AWD system than any others mentioned, cheap(er) to maintain than euros, and good performance all around.

 

[nasko]

I get 11.7L/100 km in mixed driving in my manual 1999 4runner. Not sure where you get your info on Subaru's from, but from my experience (I have had a 2004 Impreza for 9 years now) they are exceptionally built vehicles. Other than regular maintenance I only needed to change a leaking water pump at 100K km and 7 years of use at the time. I drive it in Ontario winters and it has been amazing. Probably a little small for you, but if it is any indication of Subaru's quality it has been outstanding.

 

[??????? Kilkelly]

I love my A4 wagon. However, it's got the ground clearance of a civic (5 inches, maybe?), and I'm looking to lift it.. it was also just at the edge of your price range, and #may# have the same garage record as a passat... although tons of people seem to be in Audis around Montreal right now, and I'm hearing very few complaints about them from anyone who is driving them normally.
The Subarus I've experienced have all been really solid, robust cars, and aside from some gasket and rust issues on the older ones, they are great... but the handling is a little less "fun" than the A4. Not that I'm recommending the A4 for what you're after, I just like mine. I also tried an Allroad, almost bought it, but realized that it was going to be about as much "project" as it was "car", and canned the idea. Anyway- here's a thread that I started about this, it's 3 pages of people talking about what wagons they like. http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/threads/82113-AWD-wagons-Help-me-make-a-decision

 

[upcruiser]

Outback XT's are great cars. I have sent a considerable amount of time with one. Mileage doesn't get much over 24 though but they can haul a ton of gear. You can go plus size with a set of Yokohama Geolanders which handle better than the stocksh all seasons yet give you a touch more clearance, good dirt performance and stiffer sidewalks with less deflection. The XT's are fun to drive if you want a good compromise vehicle. The standard Outback isn't horrible and can keep up with traffic at elevation, but won't provide the thrill of an XT. Another option though a much smaller car would be a WRX wagon, there are plenty of lift kits available in the aftermarket which would make for a fun all a rounder as well.

 

[WagoneerSX4]

Did volvo XCs come with a stick at any point? I have always liked these cars and my dad had a v70r for a while which was fun.

None of the early XC's came stock with a stick, only a 4 speed auto. The first XC's ('98-'00) are pretty easily converted to an M56 tranny from any 850. It's not a very straight-forward swap but very doable in your driveway if you're mechanically inclined. I swapped an M56H 5 speed into my 850R wagon, it took me about 2 solid weekends to finish, not ever doing something big like that before.

The P2 platform XC's ('01-'07) also only came with automatics, albeit a 5 speed auto. People have swapped the M56 tranny and even an M66 tranny in them but it's a bit more complicated in the P2 cars.

The newest XC's ('08-present) I assume are out of your price range.

None of the XC's are off-road orientated and the AWD systems are pretty crappy. The earlier XC's just have a hydraulic center viscous coupling which is sluggish to engage at the best of times. The '01-'07 XC's have a haldex system (I think they switched to the slighter newer version somewhere in the middle) but that system sucks just as bad. After even minor abuse the center diff shuts down from overheating and reverts to full FWD. My mom still has her '03 XC70, and we've gotten stuck in that car in some situations where you'd think even a FWD car should be able to get through. The ride is also very squishy and there's lots of body roll. They're basically just a buick for active outdoor people.

In all of them angle gears go right around 150,000km and even sooner if the car was abused and they aren't cheap to replace.