New Defender Rage/Hate Thread

[Victory_Overland]

My point exactly on line selection; had he stuck to the original line (where he went last) and maintained the momentum, he would have crawled up without issue.

Tire pressures are still entirely too high for those conditions for any vehicle but shows an example of how Super Extended Mode can assist in high center scenario; when he frames it, the Spotter shows him how to get into Super Extend Mode for extra clearance. He moves his line back to the right and completes it with consistent momentum and without issue. NO excuse for the new Defender, a TC locked vehicle has different capability and limitations but comes with experience and I would bet a million bucks that guy would nail it 10 out of 10 times as his experience grows.

Regardless, notice this driver has far better individual vehicle control, no panic, spotter discipline (he listens), and chooses better lines and is able to stick to them for the most part with proper management of his vehicle and patience. NO, he does not just go up without any issue, however, this surely is a far different story than what was originally published and IMO can and should be used to pick away at if the Trolls want to play.

This video is far more representative of a comparison and "capability and limitation" of the new Defender in a rock crawling scenario; not because he just walked right up the hill, but because he did get high centered and there are far more considerations on this vehicle than say.......a lifted D90, short wheel base, with off-road tires would need.

Anyone find a video of them taking the bone stock legacy D110 up the same route yet; I would love to see that if anyone has it. Whomever is talking to the video publisher, ask if they have any video of the bone stock legacy D110 going up the same route and if we can see it and if not; why do not, what is the reason the legacy D110 didn't go further into the trip?

@JeepColorado still waiting on your response about the trail time I offered you!

 

[JackW]

DROOL.

Too bad the US only gets a white roof on the 90 First Edition

You can spec a white or black roof on any new Defender.

 

[Blaise]

You can spec a white or black roof on any new Defender.

Looks like it's available for some colors!!!!

 

[JeepColorado]

My point exactly on line selection; had he stuck to the original line (where he went last) and maintained the momentum, he would have crawled up without issue.

Tire pressures are still entirely too high for those conditions for any vehicle but shows an example of how Super Extended Mode can assist in high center scenario; when he frames it, the Spotter shows him how to get into Super Extend Mode for extra clearance. He moves his line back to the right and completes it with consistent momentum and without issue. NO excuse for the new Defender, a TC locked vehicle has different capability and limitations but comes with experience and I would bet a million bucks that guy would nail it 10 out of 10 times as his experience grows.

Regardless, notice this driver has far better individual vehicle control, no panic, spotter discipline (he listens), and chooses better lines and is able to stick to them for the most part with proper management of his vehicle and patience. NO, he does not just go up without any issue, however, this surely is a far different story than what was originally published and IMO can and should be used to pick away at if the Trolls want to play.

This video is far more representative of a comparison and "capability and limitation" of the new Defender in a rock crawling scenario; not because he just walked right up the hill, but because he did get high centered and there are far more considerations on this vehicle than say.......a lifted D90, short wheel base, with off-road tires would need.

Anyone find a video of them taking the bone stock legacy D110 up the same route yet; I would love to see that if anyone has it. Whomever is talking to the video publisher, ask if they have any video of the bone stock legacy D110 going up the same route and if we can see it and if not; why do not, what is the reason the legacy D110 didn't go further into the trip?

@JeepColorado still waiting on your response about the trail time I offered you!

Not sure how I feel about meeting up in the woods with someone from the internet who has insinuated that I can't drive, didn't get a fair price on my Jeep, and insist on calling me a troll, but thanks for the offer!

 

[T-Willy]

Next video Of the diesel D from the same place and same group, by what is referred as “experienced driver”.

The difference between the Defender and Rubicon in these two videos is pretty similar to what I'd expect if all other factors were equal.

 

[T-Willy]

Do you guys actually perform any repairs? Like in real life? Name a repair you'd perform on a trail which you could perform with leatherman and some wire. This kind of ridiculous fantasy is beyond me - as somebody who supports the industry from a repair/engineering side. There's also no vehicle in 2020 which is going to be as simple (or poorly performing) as anything from 1960. Do you ever make fun of iphones bc your transistor radio was simpler to repair?



"experienced driver" is right. Heavy on the quotation marks. I'll go with 'nonzero'

Yes, I have actually repaired my old Land Cruiser with pliers and bailing wire that I poached from a cattle fence gate. The old girl's exhaust heat shield came loose in a particularly rough dirt tour in the northern Gila. And, I kept some extra wire for the future, just in case.

Oddly, that was a quarter mile from an old shed that years earlier I'd had to enter to use a dab of oil to repair a friend's broken bike chain (on a long bicycle tour).

 

[Victory_Overland]

Sorry guys, I tried to get a fair comparison in great trail fun with @EricTyrrell and @JeepColorado but they do not want to take me up on the offer. The offer was for a week or so of great trail fun and experience and good comrade building and a true vehicle comparison but neither want to take me up on it.

@Doron if I'm ever in your area I would love to do the same, hang out, do some great wheeling and true comparative off-roading and mix the cultures if you're down; just let me know.

Any of you are welcome on my trips and weekend runs throughout the southwest; banter and some good old trash talking are always welcome, NEGATIVITY is not! Sling what you bring; means whatever you drive is welcome. You guys clearly have zero experience with Land Rovers and choose to come on here and cherry pick negative crap from all over the internet instead of have open conversation with an open mind for change. I've offered you to join along or lets make our own trip and crush the negativity and just have some good old fashioned fun and let the driver and the vehicles actions do the talking; but you silence and avoid, it is what it is.

Meanwhile, I'll leave some legacy D3 action; about the same configuration as my bone stock LR3 with 17" wheels; he's on AT and I am on MT....no other mods and just bone stock, TC the way it came from JLR.

My point of posting this video that shows a real driver who understands his/her vehicle and listens to their spotter in complex areas. Since JLR has vastly improved the TC in the D4, D5, RR models since my 08, I find it extremely hard to believe they degraded it in the Defender TC when they increased it in every other way than previous models (dep/app angles, fording, TC, Lockers, etc.) and went back to the Stone Age like you guys seem to think. Tires and skill fix every aspect on these videos you guys are bashing.

Oldie but a Goodie and What I Sling!

And then there is a video that shows successes and failures of different vehicles in the same terrain and how driver experience, tires, and route selection allows different vehicles of different breeds to do the exact same thing or better. Jeep, LC, Hilux in Meogatle. (FYI, YouTube Meogatle and you will find a million vehicles that made this same trek to include Jeeps and old Defenders that did not).

You can continue to cherry pick the negative stuff you find on line or you can see what real off-roading looks like; when people who choose to drive and use the new Defender the they want, when they want, and where they want, more and more experience and medium will arrive online for you guys to pick apart in the way you want (Negatively) to find the failures while the rest of us continue to enjoy our days on the trail with whomever we choose no matter what they drive.

Meogatle Playtime

 

[Blaise]

Yes, I have actually repaired my old Land Cruiser with pliers and bailing wire that I poached from a cattle fence gate. The old girl's exhaust heat shield came loose in a particularly rough dirt tour in the northern Gila. And, I kept some extra wire for the future, just in case.

Ha. Well for this, you can do that repair on any car, even a brand new S-class

 

[T-Willy]

Sorry guys, I tried to get a fair comparison in great trail fun with @EricTyrrell and @JeepColorado but they do not want to take me up on the offer. The offer was for a week or so of great trail fun and experience and good comrade building and a true vehicle comparison but neither want to take me up on it.

@Doron if I'm ever in your area I would love to do the same, hang out, do some great wheeling and true comparative off-roading and mix the cultures if you're down; just let me know.

Any of you are welcome on my trips and weekend runs throughout the southwest; sling what you bring; means whatever you drive is welcome. You guys clearly have zero experience with Land Rovers and choose to come on here and cherry pick negative crap from all over the internet instead of have open conversation with an open mind for change. I've offered you to join along or lets make our own trip and crush the negativity and just have some good old fashioned fun and let the driver and the vehicles actions do the talking; but you silence and avoid, it is what it is.

Meanwhile, I'll leave some legacy D3 action; about the same configuration as my bone stock LR3 with 17" wheels; he's on AT and I am on MT....no other mods and just bone stock, TC the way it came from JLR.

My point of posting this video that shows a real driver who understands his/her vehicle and listens to their spotter in complex areas. Since JLR has vastly improved the TC in the D4, D5, RR models since my 08, I find it extremely hard to believe they degraded it in the Defender TC when they increased it in every other way than previous models (dep/app angles, fording, TC, Lockers, etc.) and went back to the Stone Age like you guys seem to think. Tires and skill fix every aspect on these videos you guys are bashing.

Oldie but a Goodie and What I Sling!

And then there is a video that shows successes and failures of different vehicles in the same terrain and how driver experience, tires, and route selection allows different vehicles of different breeds to do the exact same thing or better. Jeep, LC, Hilux in Meogatle. (FYI, YouTube Meogatle and you will find a million vehicles that made this same trek to include Jeeps and old Defenders that did not).

You can continue to cherry pick the negative stuff you find on line or you can see what real off-roading looks like; when people who choose to drive and use the new Defender the they want, when they want, and where they want, more and more experience and medium will arrive online for you guys to pick apart in the way you want (Negatively) to find the failures while the rest of us continue to enjoy our days on the trail with whomever we choose no matter what they drive.

Meogatle Playtime

I appreciate the sentiment.

For the record, I've been here trying to objectively assess Defender as a possible eventual replacement for or companion to my aging touring rig.

For my purposes, it checks just about all of the boxes to varying acceptable degrees with the notable exception of reliability. Given Land Rover's poor track record, Defender's reliability, for me, bears the burden of proof over time.

I'm not a brand loyalist, but this thread has frequently shown the dissonance between brand loyalism and the sort of objective look that I seek when contemplating the potential fate of $50,000 and the future of my cherished time touring and exploring.

But on balance it's been a valuable discussion, and I appreciate it.

 

[T-Willy]

Ha. Well for this, you can do that repair on any car, even a brand new S-class

That's true. To be clear, I have all of the mechanical aptitude of a single big toe.

 

[Victory_Overland]

Agreed all around; I rarely have more than one or two Rovers when I go out and most times alone or with a mutt-group which I like more to be honest. We all have our banter and you really get first hand knowledge of the people and their vehicles because we can't hid our strengths and weaknesses in real time; no filter!

My laundry list of things I wish were better on my LR3 are just as long as the next guy/gal that use their vehicles and maintain them; it's always great to see what and how they deal with things and get first hand knowledge of their choices and the why factor.

 

[DorB]

Do you guys actually perform any repairs? Like in real life? Name a repair you'd perform on a trail which you could perform with leatherman and some wire. This kind of ridiculous fantasy is beyond me

Way more times then you imagine.

 

[Carson G]

If you’re a good enough bush mechanic you can fix literally anything with a Swiss Army knife, duct tape, and zip ties. Modern vehicles included. Older vehicles are definitely easier though.

 

[Victory_Overland]

Way more times then you imagine.

Sounds like you need a better vehicle; maybe a new Defender P400 is in your future!

 

[JeepColorado]

I kind of feel for the LR guys on here- Jeep just continues to innovate; constantly putting and making clear that off-road is first, whereas LR is all about some etherial concept of esoteric design. It'd have to be hard to watch your brand which you clearly love to just continue year after year to walk away from you only using it's former off-road glory as a marketing ploy.

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