New Defender Rage/Hate Thread

[mpinco]

.......Designing a US-wide, California legal engine, and your intentions may be to sell it there too. But it doesn't mean that if you don't get into that market (California in this case), that it is not California legal or "legal to sell in all states".........

Using your definition of global, you would immediately cease all development, testing and manufacturing of ICE engines. Or, you select product features ONLY offered for California and have products for the other 49 states. You are now no longer 'global' ? Or are you just making a business decision that virtually few outside CA care about? Similar to EU safety regs that Wrangler complies with but at a lower level vs competion, even as sales volumes of highest and lowest compliance are converging.

You do realize that Jeeps EU sales goal is 12,000 Wranglers per year, double the D5? Who is meeting their 'global' goal?

 

[nickw]

Jaguar Land Rover has markets in 128 countries (But that includes the Jaguar brand). The Land Cruiser has markets in 170 countries. By any definition it is a "global vehicle".

Noted your above inclusion of the Prado models. However, what you posted is just showing the overview of available models over lifespan of the brand, but it's probably safe to assume the Prado is included in the sales numbers because of the Land Cruiser moniker even though they are outside the HD product line.

The original article you posted talks about "Land Cruiser Series" with the superscript reference to the definition of Land Cruiser Series which includes the Prado / Light Duty models (prev screenshot). I don't care one way or another, just be aware that HD LC's are a fraction of total sales, I bet hey sell 1 LC200 here in the states for every 50 GX460's, I'm sure other countries are similar.

 

[jmodz]

I bet hey sell 1 LC200 here in the states for every 50 GX460's, I'm sure other countries are similar.

I thought this would be fun to lookup. It is not even close to 1 LC to 50 GX's. Looks like it is closer to 1 LC sold to 8 GX's in the US. In Australia, for ever 1 LC sold they sell about 1.5 Prados.

 

[nickw]

I thought this would be fun to lookup. It is not even close to 1 LC to 50 GX's. Looks like it is closer to 1 LC sold to 8 GX's in the US. In Australia, for ever 1 LC sold they sell about 1.5 Prados.

Got a link? Got numbers for Asia?

 

[Box Rocket]

The original article you posted talks about "Land Cruiser Series" with the superscript reference to the definition of Land Cruiser Series which includes the Prado / Light Duty models (prev screenshot). I don't care one way or another, just be aware that HD LC's are a fraction of total sales, I bet hey sell 1 LC200 here in the states for every 50 GX460's, I'm sure other countries are similar.

View attachment 555741

yeah we concluded that the Prado/GX was included in the sales numbers. The US is NOT the market to look at for Land Cruiser sales. There is literally ZERO marketing dollars that get spent on US marketing for the Land Cruiser so it's not a surprise that the 200 Series sells in such small numbers here in the US. But in Australia, Asia, Middle East it's a whole different story. But Doesn't matter where you are in the world, the people that have the budget for a premium luxury vehicle at $80K+ is a small demographic relatively speaking. Much larger demographic is able to purchase vehicles in the $40-60K range which is where the Prado and GX fit.

 

[Paddler Ed]

Looks like the Wrangler, Discovery and Land Cruiser volumes are converging in Europe .......
View attachment 555702

Jeep is growing sales worldwide.

My point is not to promote Jeep but to highlight that there are many criteria that drives sales success. Those values are transferable globally.

Hypothesis 1 for the fall in Land Cruiser and Land Rover sales:
During the 1990's the options for 7 seaters in Europe were limited to the Renault Espace/Ford Galaxy (and SEAT Alhambra and VW Sharan)/PSA (and Fiat) equivalent, Mitusbish Shogun/Parjero, Isuzu Trooper (and Vauxhall/Opel Monterey), Toyota Land Cruiser 100 and 90 series, Nissan Patrol and the Land Rover Discovery. After about 2005, there was an increase in the soft roaders (Volvo XC90 etc) that were available as 7 seaters.

Hypothesis 2 for the fall in Land Cruiser and Land Rover sales:
Related to H1, the changes in the UK tax system favoured lighter and more fuel efficient vehicles (which a 7 seater 4x4 on a chassis was never going to be) so the rise of soft roaders with 7 seats increased. Changes happened a couple of times since 2000 on the UK tax scheme.

H3 the fall in Land Cruiser and Land Rover sales:
The market hasn't recoverd since the 2008 GFC

H3 for the stable Jeep sales:
This is actually the natural level for that class of vehicle - and whilst there are slight increases, it generally has stayed fairly stable, and therefore the LR will tend towards it.

 

[Victory_Overland]

My kidneys are killing me: can't tell if its from this thread, the cleanse I'm on, or watching that Jeep video @EricTyrrell posted. On a side note, I rented a Subaru Crosstrek in Yosemite and BC Canada (Love you Canadians, mostly just Canadian women but you guys are ************ too #tangent) and I ran the wheels off that thing and it was awesome in the snow and ice and I jumped it coming down from the logging road in BC....handled just like on T.V....next time I'll do the rock crawling in it per the Subaru rock crawling video.

I want to invite the group of "five of you" who have kept this thread going over to my house for Saturday's UFC fight. However, all of you have to stay in the backyard and actually are the Pre-Pre-Pre-Prelims to the Main Card; last man standing gets to stay for the Main Card but you still have to stay outside cuz you'll probably be dirty and I have nice stuff.

For the rest of us, I'm asking for small donations to replace my grass after these guys are done and to put a down payment on my new Cirrus Airplane......The Tesla of the Sky, or Defender effete version of general aviation; I actually learned one thing from this thread; what effete means! lol You and your families/dates/whatever are welcome in the house as long as you don't sneak in any of the dirty Pre Pre Pre Prelims survivors inside.

There will be plenty of beer, champaign, Land Rover, Yota guys, Jeep girls and I think one Jeep guy but his wife has a Rubicon too, neighbor has a Dodge Ram, Tesla guys and gals (nobody I know likes the Cybertruck) and pilots, Jets, Props, and Helos as I run with a diverse crowd. Since I'm single, all the lovely ladies who can't or choose not to buy an Evoque but love to ride in my Landy and sleep (#censored) in my RTT with me and fly in the Gen1 Cirrus (always evolving, I promise to buy at least a Gen3 to ensure evolution of myself) will be here and they all bring single friends.

Hold my beer; where is my popcorn damnit?

 

[Pilat]

Using your definition of global, you would immediately cease all development, testing and manufacturing of ICE engines. Or, you select product features ONLY offered for California and have products for the other 49 states. You are now no longer 'global' ? Or are you just making a business decision that virtually few outside CA care about? Similar to EU safety regs that Wrangler complies with but at a lower level vs competion, even as sales volumes of highest and lowest compliance are converging.

You do realize that Jeeps EU sales goal is 12,000 Wranglers per year, double the D5? Who is meeting their 'global' goal?

Still not grasping the concept at all. Still not grasping that it's not about sales volumes. I wonder what it takes to educate you two about simple concepts when you outright refuse to understand even simple explanations.

Using your definition of global, you would immediately cease all development, testing and manufacturing of ICE engines.

No. How can you fail to grasp these things?

Or, you select product features ONLY offered for California and have products for the other 49 states.

No. That's not how these things works. California has the strictest rules in the US when it comes to engines. If it's allowed there, it can be sold in all of the US states.

You are now no longer 'global' ? Or are you just making a business decision that virtually few outside CA care about? Similar to EU safety regs that Wrangler complies with but at a lower level vs competion, even as sales volumes of highest and lowest compliance are converging

Sales volumes have nothing to do with this. And "lowest compliance" is a weird description that shows you are not even at the cusp of understanding that if you build something to comply with the most strict regulations, you can sell it in places where the regulations are less strict. If you build an engine (or car) to meet or exceed the rules of California, you can sell it in all US states. If you scale it up: If you build an engine or car to meet the regulations of China, California, strictest rules/areas of the EU and whatever else might have strict rules, you can sell it anywhere because other places have less strict rules.

 

[Pilat]

Here you go:

60th Anniversary Edition V124

www.sscycle.com

If you click that link and then go to "notes", it says this:

NOT LEGAL FOR SALE OR USE IN CALIFORNIA ON ANY POLLUTION CONTROLLED MOTOR VEHICLE. Not legal for sale or use on any EPA pollution controlled motor vehicle.

S&S also have some engines that are "FOR CLOSED COURSE COMPETITION USE ONLY. NOT INTENDED FOR STREET USE":

T143 Black Edition Long Block Engine for 2006-'17 HD® Dyna® Models

S&S T143 engines are now available for 2006-17 Harley-Davidson® Dyna® models. (Silver finish and other displacements ava

www.sscycle.com

 

[Blaise]

New Tahoe/Suburban are announced today...

It has independent suspension.
It has optional air suspension. Magneride adaptive damping too!

IS THE WORLD ENDING? Nope, just progressing. Now the Z71 tahoe is on my list...

 

[mpinco]

New Tahoe/Suburban are announced today...

It has independent suspension.
It has optional air suspension.

IS THE WORLD ENDING? Nope, just progressing. Now the Z71 tahoe is on my list...

With a good engine option list:

A 5.3-liter V-8 with 355 horsepower, 6.2-liter V-8 with 420 hp and new 3.0-liter diesel engine, which debuted in the Chevrolet Silverado, with 277 hp and a 460 lb-ft of torque. All engines will be matched with a 10-speed transmission.

 

[Blaise]

Independent adjustable-height air suspension with Magneride is a seriously amazing (on paper) solution. I can't wait to try it.

I don't think LR is offering any adaptive damping...

 

[EricTyrrell]

New Tahoe/Suburban are announced today...

It has independent suspension.
It has optional air suspension.

IS THE WORLD ENDING? Nope, just progressing. Now the Z71 tahoe is on my list...

One less reason to buy a Defender. Now you can buy basically the same category of domesticated soft-roader but from a far larger dealer network, better reliability record, better engines, and less ugly design.

 

[Pilat]

One less reason to buy a Defender. Now you can buy basically the same category of domesticated soft-roader but from a far larger dealer network, better reliability record, better engines, and less ugly design.

 

[EricTyrrell]

Independent adjustable-height air suspension with Magneride is a seriously amazing (on paper) solution. I can't wait to try it.

I don't think LR is offering any adaptive damping...

You want a Range Rover. Go buy one.