New Defender Rage/Hate Thread

[Blaise]

domesticated soft-roader

IF YOU AREN'T ON THE RUBICON, YOU ARE A DOMESTICATED MALL CRAWLER. PROOF:

 

[DieselRanger]

Sadly that is true for JLR. Their dealer network for the US is coastal/large urban areas. While they have expanded, it is always predicated on high income zip codes. JLR has zero presence in the upper midwest / nothern intermountain west. Years ago when I was looking for a RRC LWB the search results were dominated by TX, NJ, CA, FL and GA. In my travels across the Midwest I hardly ever saw another LR. It is somewhat better but with JLR moving upmarket we shall see. So to your point JLR does lack even the most basic support for large areas of the US, well other than you can call roadside assistance and they will flat-bed you the hundreds of miles to the nearest dealer.

JLR is moving upmarket, eh? They weren't there before? I always remember as a kid it was a treat to see a 12 cylinder Jaguar XJ or Vanden Plas glide by. Jaguar interiors always looked fit to gently cradle the Queen's own ass, at least until Ford bought them. Range Rovers might as well have been spaceships. Full-fat Range Rovers are still rare, as they should be.

If there was a market for them in Montgomery, Alabama or Topeka, KS they'd be there. There are two dealers in Kansas though - but you have to go to Wichita or a suburb of Kansas City. Alabama has three - Birmingham, Huntsville, and Mobile. The JLR dealers you see clustered near money have always been there, because they've always been premium vehicles.

1-800-FINE-4WD was and still is Land Rover's "call us" number.

 

[DieselRanger]

IF YOU AREN'T ON THE RUBICON, YOU ARE A DOMESTICATED MALL CRAWLER. PROOF:

View attachment 555859

Whaah hay-ull, that's just a cobblestone boo-lee-vard.

 

[Blaise]

IF YOU'RE NOT FIRST YOU'RE LAST

IF YOUR CAR COMPROMISES ANYTHING WHICH COULD AFFECT HARDCORE 4X4 PARK OBSTACLES, ITS POINTLESS

All or nothing boys. You know, four door rubicons are soft-roaders because they sacrificed wheelbase for (gasp) seats

 

[EricTyrrell]

IF YOU AREN'T ON THE RUBICON, YOU ARE A DOMESTICATED MALL CRAWLER. PROOF:

I commend those willing to endure the headaches of fitting decent tires, messing with air suspension mods, frustrating winch fitment, dealing with break-downs (you will, if you haven't), and assuming the risk of taking these unreliable machines off-the beaten path. I did too, for a while. Then I tired of it. I realized it was unnecessary to push these things to go where they don't belong, when one can just buy a more honest platform.

 

[mpinco]

JLR is moving upmarket, eh? They weren't there before? ......

There was a time when there was Land Rover for the masses ($30K) and Range Rover for the upmarket ($60K+). We've beat the Defender horse to death. The DI and DII were for both the commercial and personal market's. There was a time when a capability was introduced on the RR product line and years later migrated DOWN to the LR product line. My point was that there was a distinct difference between Land Rover and Range Rover. The Rover Group actually structured the company that way. Those lines are now blurring as the platforms are shared across LR and RR as the technology is commoditized. There is even discussion of a high end 'Land Rover' that will break the $100K+ price barrier. The Evoque moved the RR brand down market. As JLR moved to Defender, Discovery and RR product lines you see the Russian doll effect. The variation are different sizes of the same.

 

[EricTyrrell]

There was a time when there was Land Rover for the masses and Range Rover for the upmarket. We've beat the Defender horse to death. The DI and DII were for both the commercial and personal market's. There was a time when a capability was introduced on the RR product line and years later migrated DOWN to the LR product line. My point was that there was a distinct difference between Land Rover and Range Rover. The Rover Group actually structured the company that way. Those lines are now blurring as the platforms are shared across LR and RR as the technology is commoditized. There is even discussion of a high end Defender that will break the $100K+ price barrier. The Evoque moved the RR brand down market. As JLR moved to Defender, Discovery and RR product lines you see the Russian doll effect. The variation are different sizes of the same.

For those that like the stupid thing, all this wait was pointless. You've been able to guy a Discovery or Range Rover for years. There's effectively no major difference. They all share the same strategy, technology, design language, etc. I guess now you can have a Range Rover with Jeep style angry-eye headlights.

 

[Christian P.]

I am thinking of a few members who would deserve this award.

 

[mpinco]

In summary much of the discussion has been along the lines of the long understood difference between Land Rover and Range Rover. The Land Rover was always downmarket, for the masses, simpler and commercial. The Range Rover was always upmarket, much higher complexity and much higher price point. Never for the masses, always for the elite, a status symbol.

As dieselranger pointed out, RR was the Jaguar of SUV's. The Land Rover was never that. As Land Rover moved upmarket they lost market share to the Toyota's of the world.

 

[Pilat]

For mechanical parts, I generally carry spare driveshafts (stored under the vehicle), spare axle shafts, ujoints, spare brake pads, spare rod ends, spare hub studs, spare wheel studs and wheel bearings. Various other nuts bolts, various sized o-rings. A way to charge battery powered tools. CO2 tank that can be used for Air tools. Of course a number of different items in a recovery kit that can be used for self recovery or for recovery from another vehicle. Depending on the trip, I've also carried spare starters, fuel pumps and even a complete differential

Sheesh! No wonder you have break downs. Sounds like the vehicle is overloaded before you even head out.

 

[Blaise]

I commend those willing to endure the headaches of fitting decent tires, messing with air suspension mods, frustrating winch fitment, dealing with break-downs (you will, if you haven't),

Installing tires isn't a headache.

My EAS is stock.

I don't have a winch.

I haven't broken down.

The Horse is dead.

 

[Christian P.]

This is what I recall from my years in Africa.

 

[EricTyrrell]

This is what I recall from my years in Africa.

Yup. Still just as unreliable, except now they're far less field repairable. There are two types of modern LR off-roaders, those who have been bitten too many times, and those convinced they'll be the exception.

 

[Jwestpro]

one can just buy a more honest platform.

Can I sneak this in here: what did you get instead of whatever you had? No judgement, just curious.

 

[EricTyrrell]

Installing tires isn't a headache.

My EAS is stock.

I don't have a winch.

I haven't broken down.

The Horse is dead.

It is if you want off-road worthy tires on any model except an SE LR3 (factory 18s), and even then the tire selection is greatly reduced, it's an unnecessary headache with no proper solutions if you're stuck with 19"+ wheels. If you want to fit larger tires and (smartly) retain the ability to run snow-chains, or retain bump-stop mobility, have fun messing about with EAS mods. Good think you don't have a winch. They're a pain to fit to any modern LR without spending a fortune, hacking up body work, and ending up with an inaccessible unsafe solution.

EDIT: I almost forgot about the spare tire situation. Barely larger than stock and you're looking at shelling out for a rear-tire carrier. It's all so unnecessarily difficult. From reliability to logistics, you eventually realize they only engineered them to be off-road vehicles in theory.