New Defender Rage/Hate Thread
- Thread starter DieselRanger
- Start date
Victory_Overland
Explorer
I think Toyota has went to the millennial adventure sport side but it's a huge market and you can't shake a stick without hitting a Taco or 4Runner here in SoCal; from the surf, skate, weekend warrior, UFC, Moto-Bro-Ho, and whatever else; they are selling and selling big time and the vast majority are mall crawlers just like all the Jeeps and LRs. On that note, I'm in SoCal so there is not much individuality around here; everyone is doing and buying what everyone else does and they all can get lost in the parking lot....lol
I'm no marketing strategist by any means but whatever they are doing, it's working!
gspfunk
Member
I like it for the most part. The one I built on their site had the steelies, which look better than the other options, IMO. I just don’t know if I trust a newer LR not to break. I know a lot of it is hype/internet, but it’s still in my head. I DO love the rear-mounted spare. I got the Maxcare on our WK2 Trailhawk for the same reason...I know the air suspension will ******** the bed @ some point.
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Box Rocket
Well-known member
That's quite humorous. Definitely not a test of any offroad capability, and wouldn't even have required 4wd, but in all honesty, 90% of the people that actually buy a new defender won't ever even push it that far, but just use the car as a status symbol to show their "rugged" lifestyle.Can someone tell this stupid engineer,
Go screw yourself.
Streets of LA has more potholes and it’s more challenging than his fake advertisement,
And morons out there believe that this fake defender is so capable and survivable by looking at videos like that.
See 2020 Land Rover Defender Get Trashed By Its Chief Engineer
If you had any doubts that the new Land Rover Defender wasn’t as tough as the old truck, maybe this video will change your mind.www.motor1.com
ps. only minivans have dash mounted shifters.
AbleGuy
Officious Intermeddler
Hey, that’s a great new term for our collective vocabulary:
....”off readers,” to describe keyboard kowboys!
...”off reading,” the act of vicariously adventuring via a magazine, book, tv or computer screen.
And, no offense intended guys as I also frequently saddle up ride off on my keyboards.
As Zane Grey might say, I’m a Rider of the Purple Prose too!
(Or maybe, Rider of the Purple Page)
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DieselRanger
Well-known member
Now that's some New Defender rage/hate right there.
Colin Hughes
Explorer
Well, what Toyota is doing is called reliability.
I get in the 4Runner, turn the key and drive, no $6000 a year repair bills, no worrying about eas dropping to the bumpstops because of a corroded can-bus cable, no more Christmas in July on my dashboard, etc ... it's refreshing actually. The D1 was my first LR almost 20 years ago and there is one in the garage which I enjoy taking out for a run but pulling my trailer, heading out mountain biking or just knowing I'll make it to work without a flatbed involved, I'm very happy with the T4R. Do I get a bit of envy when I see a D4 go by, sure, but then I think how much I'm saving, even on fuel and I'm content again 
Here you go:
Arkonik: Defending the Defender - Expedition Portal
Prologue: Namibia “Yeah, it’s leaking oil pretty good.” I’m yelling from underneath a well-outfitted Land Rover Defender 110, trying to overcome the clattering of an idling 300Tdi motor. Early on as a professional archaeologist, I learned just to accept the vehicle you get when you get there and...
expeditionportal.com
Here you go:
Arkonik: Defending the Defender - Expedition Portal
Prologue: Namibia “Yeah, it’s leaking oil pretty good.” I’m yelling from underneath a well-outfitted Land Rover Defender 110, trying to overcome the clattering of an idling 300Tdi motor. Early on as a professional archaeologist, I learned just to accept the vehicle you get when you get there and...expeditionportal.com
".......But it wasn’t the heated leather seats, functional air conditioning (procured in Germany), thicker aluminum body panels (well beyond original specs), or blueprinted motors that impressed me about these two Arkonik Defender 110s I drove. I was amazed that after four hours on a reasonably technical Sierra trail, there was no dust ingress into the interior. I was astounded that there were no interior rattles. I was in complete disbelief after a full day’s testing that there were no oil leaks. I did slide beneath with a flashlight, right under the watchful eye of company owner Andy Hayes, to check. It is evident that Arkonik has done their homework with the iconic Defender. The result is an extremely comfortable, highly capable bespoke workhorse. If you want a floor water leak, it’s surely a special order. ......."
In summary if LR had invested in the Defender vs ignoring it for 35 years, this is what it could have been, or even better.
I take it you are willing to pay north of 100K for that thing?
But they now have a new one out. You should be rejoicing that it is finally here.
I may have missed it, but I believe at $175K they still have no airbags and/or ABS.
| Brakes | Replaced for new: Brake lines, front discs and rear drums |
That may or may not matter to you (and your family). It does to me now. Somehow when I was 20 I did not really care as I thought I would live forever....now I really do want to live forever.
That is a very low volume price. Scaled to today's manufacturing capabilities and supplier base the price would drop in half.
Sure it would. Hence the new Defender which is the better vehicle. If LR could have made the old Defender (as in welding etc.) cheaper, they would have. It was a costly thing to build even just to the "standard" spec. So even at 20k units/year, it still wasn't cheap to build. But you're saying that this sort of "restomod"/upgrading would scale to make it as cheap as the old one. Yeah, not buying it. And even at those prices, it still would be a horrible vehicle to live with. Bandaids on a poor design only go so far.
I'm not saying bandaids or restomods. I'm saying actual investment in engineering, materials, suppliers and production. The 35+ years that LR ignored. Appears the Ineos Granadier will be the new Defender.
Box Rocket
Well-known member
Reliability is definitely part of the attraction to Toyota. One thing that is often overlooked in the current market is what Toyota has been incredibly successful at. That is that they have marketed in a way that is very attractive to younger buyers and have done it with "lifestyle". They have taken a couple of vehicles (Tacoma and 4Runner) and have produced them at a price point attainable by younger buyers who have graduated from buying cheap, beater cars that was all they could afford and can now afford something new and nicer, but has the 'adventurous" image they are attracted to. There's no doubt there are thousands of cookie cutter Tacoma and 4Runner builds out there and it's a bit of a joke for many that anyone into "overlanding" these days must have a Tacoma or 4Runner. This is HUGE for Toyota! They have tapped into a massive demographic of new, young buyers and are making lifelong Toyota customers out of many of them. From a business point of view it's an incredible accomplishment that is going to pay dividends for Toyota down the road.Well, what Toyota is doing is called reliability.
The LR has never really targeted that market, nor do I think they should to be honest. But by capturing a large part of the market early, such as Toyota has, a degree of brand loyalty over time is the result. This can only have a negative impact on other manufacturers like LR or Jeep or Chevrolet who will need to develop something superior and unique enough, as well as more capable and reliable offroad to lure loyal owners away from Toyota.
I'm a big Toyota fan but I'm well aware that there are a number of other excellent 4wd vehicles out there so I'm not merely a blind loyalist. Which is why I've owned LR, Jeep, GM, and other import brands besides Toyota over the years. But the experience with my Toyotas has always been superior which is why they are my personal "go-to" brand of choice. I would sincerely consider another brand if I felt there was one that exceeded at meeting my needs more than something offered by Toyota. In terms of exploration and 4wd uses, I have not found anything that does, and I'm not just talking about capability, but the complete experience. There are other vehicles that might be better in one area or another but nothing has delivered the complete package for me as well as Toyota. Others may have a similar experience with a different manufacturer, and that's perfectly acceptable.