New Defender Rage/Hate Thread

[DorB]

We are talking 1/4" of difference....

It’s not “only” 1/4” height.
It’s how much extra air you can put in, and the weight it can support given x pressure, hanse the footprint, ground pressure etc.

it’s an air tank and not a 1/4stripe of rubber.

 

[Colin Hughes]

People literally drive across the entire country on dirty roads and through mountain pass roads in 2wd cars..................never even blink an eye at an overland vehicle.

What most of the world really drives in the places we wish we could take our overland vehicles.?

I do remember a bunch of local Land Rover guys did a trip from Toronto to Tuk following the winter ice roads. Outfitted fully, ready for anything. Two weeks after they got back, a guy from the London area drove there and back in his Honda Civic, sleeping in his car the entire trip. Apparently it was a yearly trip he made.

 

[onemanarmy]

Fact is, the ICE is on it's way out the door; whether we agree with it or not is none of our choices and that is for sure!

Over the last 5-7 years, the vast majority of vehicles being built, regardless of use are jammed packed with ECU's and electronics from the engine control to the body control modules and then just about every accessory or major subgroup gets its own individual ECU.

I do not think there is one major OEM that sells to the general population (majority), regardless of where on the planet that has not promised full electric within the next 5-10 years. Does anyone think they care one tiny bit about the 75% of the nations that can't effectively afford electric vehicles for all the reasons of grid power, economics, etc. I am not saying due to cost they can't afford it; I'm talking about their lives and nations are just not propped up for that kind of nonsense. As controlling "Actors" of the major superpowers continue to pin down rules and regulations you will see only the niche markets of low volume vehicles will be able to produce ICE and pay a hefty fee to do it.

On that note, all of these sexy new cars we are seeing are slowing being developed to remove one major component and install two; remove the ICE and install motors and batteries.

The new Bronco will share the vast majority of Explorer and other successful products they build; it will be one of the most "electronically" controlled vehicles produced with "advance electronic TC and lockers" with the option to add "electro-magnetic off-road suspension" to pair with that "electronically controlled TC and lockers"....................so that right there puts it in the same exact conversation as the new Defender.

Sexy? Where?

The new bronco and baby bronco are swing and misses too.

Cramming tech into a car is not always the answer. How about a manual trans, manual t case, manual hubs (for the MPG), a tried and true NA motor, and solid axles? Built for the long haul, nothing extra. If you're going to call it a Bronco or a Defender, then at least make an effort. If not, call it something else.
A car built that will last 15+ years with minimal maintenance, parts and shop time is FAR better for the environment than constantly creating new plastic parts, mining for battery materials, miles of wiring, having massive repair shops, and junking a 5 year old car cause the trans and/or engine costs too much to fix.
The simple car can be recycled easier too.

The new defender designer says he didn't want to create a caricature....and did that 100%. What a doofus, along with the board and other high level employees at JLR who let it happen.

Replacing the ICE with an electric motor has nothing to do with the car show styling, the screens, the IFS/IRS, the 19" wheels, the overload of plastic pieces, and the general 180* turn from the 'Defender' heritage.

 

[DieselRanger]

He doesn't just discuss design. In addition to stopping short of declaring himself king of LR, he discusses elevating design to the center of LR's focus. Engineering has been sidelined (also evidenced in other interviews), a complete 360 from the company's origins, and another sign that JLR and classic LR are two completely dissimilar entities. Have you ever seen McGovern off-road? He doesn't, not even for company research. He clearly is more at home collecting art, arranging flowers, and hanging out with Posh Spice, yet some some reason is placed responsible for designing (what were) off-road focused products. It's no wonder we see friction in nearly every LR forum regarding the new and classic products. The markets, the people, their values, are completely different. JLR would have done us great favor, if in 2003 they had dropped the Land Rover brand and continued with Range Rover. At least then we'd have some sensible defining line between Land Rover communities and Range Rover communities. The Range Rover Defender could have been unleashed without completely confusing the identity of the completely opposite classic. Those that prefer utility and function over form would be able to discuss their issues (greasable vs sealed U-joints) which differ from those that prefer London chic, who could discuss theirs (why is my plastic tread plate peeling off).

From his perspective, sure, he's "elevating design" within Land Rover. Not hard to do since before that you could draw one on a beach with a stick.

 

[DieselRanger]

I still find this ironic, since as far as I know, every non-base engine Defender, supposedly the pinnacle of off-road capability, will ship from the factory incapable of real-world off-road use without somehow swapping smaller wheels.

Incapable? Explain. What size wheels are required for leaving pavement?

 

[DieselRanger]

Real world, as in not a LR demo track devoid of the real dangers present in off-road travel. Most people here know why low-profile tires are not practical for off-road use.

What's more real world than Namibia?

 

[DieselRanger]

Cramming tech into a car is not always the answer. How about a manual trans, manual t case, manual hubs (for the MPG), a tried and true NA motor, and solid axles? Built for the long haul, nothing extra. If you're going to call it a Bronco or a Defender, then at least make an effort. If not, call it something else.

Buy a Mahindra Roxor.

 

[DieselRanger]

It’s not “only” 1/4” height.
It’s how much extra air you can put in, and the weight it can support given x pressure, hanse the footprint, ground pressure etc.

it’s an air tank and not a 1/4stripe of rubber.

That comes down to carcass and tread design as much as physical dimensions. You can't air down a 70-series passenger car tire and expect the same performance as airing down a 55-series AT. You will likely destroy the car tire whereas the AT will be fine.

Again, if you're hard-core rock crawling you should buy a hard-core rock crawler. The Defender ain't that. None of them ever were.

 

[DorB]

That comes down to carcass and tread design as much as physical dimensions. You can't air down a 70-series passenger car tire and expect the same performance as airing down a 55-series AT. You will likely destroy the car tire whereas the AT will be fine.

Again, if you're hard-core rock crawling you should buy a hard-core rock crawler. The Defender ain't that. None of them ever were.

Yes you can..
Because the tire size is related to the car’s weight, and the air pressure in conjunction with the tire volume.

Been there, still doting it from time to time..

And a 2.5+ ton truck with 55-60 sidewall, is like sending a heavy weight boxer into the ring with stilettos..

 

[nickw]

It’s not “only” 1/4” height.
It’s how much extra air you can put in, and the weight it can support given x pressure, hanse the footprint, ground pressure etc.

it’s an air tank and not a 1/4stripe of rubber.

Of course, but based on the simplistic argument I was giving a simplistic view of the reality of the situation.

 

[nickw]

People literally drive across the entire country on dirty roads and through mountain pass roads in 2wd cars..................never even blink an eye at an overland vehicle.

What most of the world really drives in the places we wish we could take our overland vehicles.?

I do remember a bunch of local Land Rover guys did a trip from Toronto to Tuk following the winter ice roads. Outfitted fully, ready for anything. Two weeks after they got back, a guy from the London area drove there and back in his Honda Civic, sleeping in his car the entire trip. Apparently it was a yearly trip he made.

LOL, that probably happens more than we think. One guy is IGing #epictrip the other doesnt tell anybody....I'm sure we know who is who

 

[onemanarmy]

Buy a Mahindra Roxor.

Weak argument. Not relevant. What I described was made, road legal for the masses, not that long ago, by a few manufacturers.
It can be done, and as a benefit, it would be cheaper. All of the parts already existed, aside from strengthening the body to meet current regs.

 

[nickw]

Sexy? Where?

The new bronco and baby bronco are swing and misses too.

Cramming tech into a car is not always the answer. How about a manual trans, manual t case, manual hubs (for the MPG), a tried and true NA motor, and solid axles? Built for the long haul, nothing extra. If you're going to call it a Bronco or a Defender, then at least make an effort. If not, call it something else.
A car built that will last 15+ years with minimal maintenance, parts and shop time is FAR better for the environment than constantly creating new plastic parts, mining for battery materials, miles of wiring, having massive repair shops, and junking a 5 year old car cause the trans and/or engine costs too much to fix.
The simple car can be recycled easier too.

The new defender designer says he didn't want to create a caricature....and did that 100%. What a doofus, along with the board and other high level employees at JLR who let it happen.

Replacing the ICE with an electric motor has nothing to do with the car show styling, the screens, the IFS/IRS, the 19" wheels, the overload of plastic pieces, and the general 180* turn from the 'Defender' heritage.

Why would LR build a vehicle just for guys like you, the 1%? Beats me.

Sounds like you should stick with your 55. You do realize, if they made it old school like you say, it would still be a $40-50k rig (if not more).....to which many guys would come on here and call BS then go on a diatribe about how overpriced it is for what you get.

Do you realize that your stock FJ55 came with 28.5" tires? The sidewall height of your OEM tires on 15's is very close to the stock 32's w/19" rim on the new Defender. Too bad they didn't have a forum back in the 1970's for you to tell everybody a stock 55 didn't belong off highway.

 

[nickw]

Yes you can..
Because the tire size is related to the car’s weight, and the air pressure in conjunction with the tire volume.

Been there, still doting it from time to time..

And a 2.5+ ton truck with 55-60 sidewall, is like sending a heavy weight boxer into the ring with stilettos..

If you want to talk aspect ratio, the 19" rims have 65 tires. What's the big deal? I don't get it....
a) The Tacoma uses 65's
b) The Land Cruisers since the early 2000's' uses 60
c) Many 1 ton pickups; use 65 - 70s

All perfectly capable for moderate offroad / expedition use 100% stock. In the case of the 1 ton pickups, they are much heavier the 2.5+ tons. What is your point?

 

[REDROVER]

The original Land Rover guys lost there icon and that’s why they are mad,
and as much as you think new defender is capable and this and that, it will just be another Land Rover, drive for 7 years and junk it.

You know what happens when wolf pack loses alpha wolf?
It’s breaks apart.