New Defender Rage/Hate Thread

[DorB]

So Toyota is allowed to "branch off", and people still love a useless LX570, but Land Rover can't?

No..
But referring to the 200 as the 40’ line is like referring to the Discovery as a preceding of the series II /Defender branch.
And who claim such, only emphasis its lack of knowledge in product lines.
And when he use it as an example.. well, what can I say more?

 

[nickw]

No..
But referring to the 200 as the 40’ line is like referring to the Discovery as a preceding of the series II /Defender branch.
And who claim such, only emphasis its lack of knowledge in product lines.
And when he use it as an example.. well, what can I say more?

Not rocket surgery.....the 60 Series is in the same 'line' as the 200, so is the 80 and 100...should they stop calling all of them "Landcruisers" unless it's a 70?

 

[Christian P.]

Speaking of lineage, I guess it could have been worst. I would like you guys to make an argument over this one.

This thread would have well over 1000 pages by now.



Edit: Apparently this thread may still be ongoing 40 years from now...

Ford Rationalizes Mustang II As A Good Idea, 40 Years Later

Forty years ago, the Ford Mustang II replaced the Mustang. It was (and remains) ugly and slow. Fortunately for the Mustang II, it was only a little uglier and a little slower than the Mustang it replaced, so it sold well. It was also considerably less ugly than the Pinto it was loosely based on...

www.motorauthority.com

 

[DorB]

Not rocket surgery.....the 60 Series is in the same 'line' as the 200, so is the 80 and 100...should they stop calling all of them "Landcruisers" unless it's a 70?

That’s not the issue.

The guy used the 200 example as a justification for the use of “Defender” name for the new LR SUV.

That’s not the correct comparison, because LR doesn’t really have a branching as Toyota does.
Unless you count the 90/100/110/130/6x6/military HD as branching.
And if so, then the new SUV is clearly not a Defender but rather a branching from the disco line, not the Defender line.

 

[Copple]

I‘d argue that the new Defender follows the ethos of the original more closely than the current Land Cruiser resembles its counterparts produced 30 years ago. LR built a modern SUV that met the demands of most its potential customers, and gasp, they're using modern technology and electrical systems. How many Defenders did LR sell in the US during their three year run here? At one point I believe it was 5,000-7,000 total. As much as everyone says they want hte most rugged utilitarian vehicle out there, few people actually are willing to pay for it. Instead of a more gradual generation by generation update of the Defender we’re just seeing a fairly radical one.

 

[Paddler Ed]

These are both interesting from the point of view of the Range Rover development - I actually am coming to the opinion that the new Defender is the replacement for the Range Rover Classic (which is what the Disco almost started life as) having read these and thought about it.

50 years of Range Rover: Mk1 prototype meets latest generation | Autocar

The ancestor of today's Range Rover has a very special history. We climbed onboard to celebrate the model's half-century

www.autocar.co.uk

How Land Rover developed the Range Rover, 1965-present | Autocar

From its origins as the humble 'Station Wagon' to the long-wheelbase LSE and beyond, this is the history of Land Rover's luxury icon

www.autocar.co.uk

 

[T-Willy]

Here - this article might engender rage and hate.

"The new truck, with all of its computer-controlled components, runs the risk of being too complex, too hard to modify, and just not rugged or dependable enough to be a serious off-road machine, not to mention its high price tag and expensive parts. So, here are 15 SUVs that you could buy for less than a new Defender, and that might serve you better as serious off-road vehicles."

15 Cheap SUVs We'd Buy Instead Of A New Land Rover Defender

The Defender is a legend among SUVs, but the new one runs the risk of being too expensive and not rugged enough to compete with serious off-roaders.

www.hotcars.com

 

[JeepColorado]

Here - this article might engender rage and hate.

"The new truck, with all of its computer-controlled components, runs the risk of being too complex, too hard to modify, and just not rugged or dependable enough to be a serious off-road machine, not to mention its high price tag and expensive parts. So, here are 15 SUVs that you could buy for less than a new Defender, and that might serve you better as serious off-road vehicles."

15 Cheap SUVs We'd Buy Instead Of A New Land Rover Defender

The Defender is a legend among SUVs, but the new one runs the risk of being too expensive and not rugged enough to compete with serious off-roaders.

www.hotcars.com

Doesn't inspire Hate/Rage with me- actually makes a lot of sense

The article below might inspire some hate amongst the Green Oval faithful- looking through the list and reading all of these comments about how the current Defender is squandering the rich heritage of the name makes me think that the Wrangler is actually a more worthy successor to the legacy of the Defender

Here's Why The 2020 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon Is The Best Stock Off-Roader Money Can Buy

There's no shortage of capable off-roaders available for 2020, but the Jeep Wrangler Rubicon might be the best of them all.

www.hotcars.com

 

[T-Willy]

Doesn't inspire Hate/Rage with me- actually makes a lot of sense

The article below might inspire some hate amongst the Green Oval faithful- looking through the list and reading all of these comments about how the current Defender is squandering the rich heritage of the name makes me think that the Wrangler is actually a more worthy successor to the legacy of the Defender

Here's Why The 2020 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon Is The Best Stock Off-Roader Money Can Buy

There's no shortage of capable off-roaders available for 2020, but the Jeep Wrangler Rubicon might be the best of them all.

www.hotcars.com

If only Jeep would fix the paltry payload of the Rubicon.

 

[nickw]

Doesn't inspire Hate/Rage with me- actually makes a lot of sense

The article below might inspire some hate amongst the Green Oval faithful- looking through the list and reading all of these comments about how the current Defender is squandering the rich heritage of the name makes me think that the Wrangler is actually a more worthy successor to the legacy of the Defender

Here's Why The 2020 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon Is The Best Stock Off-Roader Money Can Buy

There's no shortage of capable off-roaders available for 2020, but the Jeep Wrangler Rubicon might be the best of them all.

www.hotcars.com

As @T-Willy points out, payload is always going to hold it back and one of the reasons it, along with other rigs like the ZR2 Bison, Raptor and Powerwagon (relative to the equivalent non PW version) are great offroad. Do you realize the OG Defender was never designed strictly as an offroad vehicle? Seems like a lot of guys are totally missing that....

 

[Carson G]

As @T-Willy points out, payload is always going to hold it back and one of the reasons it, along with other rigs like the ZR2 Bison, Raptor and Powerwagon (relative to the equivalent non PW version) are great offroad. Do you realize the OG Defender was never designed strictly as an offroad vehicle? Seems like a lot of guys are totally missing that....

I agree kinda it’s difficult to make a vehicle have lots of flex and payload. Not to mention it needs to drive good.

 

[UnfrozenCaveman]

I've watched this thread / other similar discussions for what seems like forever.

If you don't want what the new model has to offer, buy an old one...I don't get all the excitement from either the "rage/hate" or "love-it" camps.

Having said that, most of you likely know that I'm quite happy without a computer /radio / climate control / yada yada yada, of any kind in my vehicle. That works for me ... it doesn't have to work for anyone else.

If you want new, comfortable, modern ... hey buy something that's new / modern / comfortable



I've got the Defender that works for me ... you should get the one that works for you.

 

[T-Willy]

I agree kinda it’s difficult to make a vehicle have lots of flex and payload. Not to mention it needs to drive good.

...Which is one reason why good remote touring wagons have been so rare in the U.S. market.

In my book, it needs all of these attributes:

- Mid sized - big enough to haul stuff, small enough to navigate terrible two tracks at the ends of dirt roads
- Off road capability - ground clearance, flex, traction enough to handle beach sand and terrible two tracks at the ends of dirt roads
- Durability - can endure endless dirt road punishment without things breaking
- Reliability - all systems built well, and failures don't leave you immobile
- Payload - the ability to carry people, gear, fuel, food and water for multiple days - in my experience above 1800 lbs, closer to 2000 better
- Range - 500-600 miles (payload)
- Comfort - to do all that with a reasonable amount of comfort day after day

Our old 92 Land Cruiser ticks all of these boxes. But among current or soon-to-be U.S. offerings?

- Defender ticks all the boxes except reliability (durability too?) until Defender proves otherwise
- Diesel Wrangler Unlimited ticks all of the boxes except payload and, some would argue the new motor needs to prove its reliability
- New Bronco? We'll see when the numbers come out
- 4Runner and Land Cruiser 200 tick those boxes except for payload (and range--relatedly)

 

[EricTyrrell]

I've got the Defender that works for me ... you should get the one that works for you.

The problem, in few words, is that your "new / modern / comfortable " Defender wears the wrong badge. It's a Jeep.

 

[EricTyrrell]

pfffft. all that level headed logic has no place in this thread!

Yes the level headed logic of judging a vehicle's worthiness on the solidity of its grab handles, or lamenting on the classic being ill-suited for domesticated daily driving , for which it was never intended.