New Defender Rage/Hate Thread

Blaise

Well-known member
My career has spanned design, test, manufacturing R&D, actual hands-on manufacturing support, and now certification.

Where on this chart do you think you are? I've been doing this long enough to know that the folks making these decisions aren't rookies.

Let me guess, you know everything!


dunningkruger.jpeg
 
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mpinco

Expedition Leader
I suspect the Ineos Grenadier will make the new Defender look and feel like the next gen LR4, the LR5. I could be wrong ..............
 

Blaise

Well-known member
Could! Regardless, more choices = more better, like you said a few pages back. Having all these options is a net positive for our community.

Or we can just keep hating....
 

EricTyrrell

Expo God
My career has spanned design, test, manufacturing R&D, actual hands-on manufacturing support, and now certification.

Where on this chart do you think you are? I've been doing this long enough to know that the folks making these decisions aren't rookies.

Let me guess, you know everything!

Your trust in these professionals and wholesale adoption of this corporate product is naive. I've witnessed the inner workings at JLR and declined opportunities to work with them after being sorely disappointed in their organizational disfunctionality and their cultural disconnect from reality. I've hired or endured the incompetence of too many highly educated and experienced morons to stand for it anymore. One learns what to look for. The product itself and insights from insider interviews further reveals how disconnected they are from the challenges in their line-up, branding, and the market. I'm sure none of this will make a difference to your perspective. At least you're not asking for pics and meetups in the woods.
 

Blaise

Well-known member
Lift rods make me sad. :(

The product itself and insights from insider interviews further reveals how disconnected they are from the challenges in their line-up, branding, and the market. I'm sure none of this will make a difference to your perspective. At least you're not asking for pics and meetups in the woods.

The only rover I've owned has been my current LR3. It's been absolutely hands down the best truck I've owned.

You may disagree with the direction they took or how they're doing their branding. You might even have experience in this space and honestly I don't care what happens with the Evoque or whatever else they sell - I'm indifferent.

My opinion/perspective (respectfully) is that this product fills a need in the market, and based on how great my current truck is, I'm extremely excited about it.
 

Red90

Adventurer
I suspect the Ineos Grenadier will make the new Defender look and feel like the next gen LR4, the LR5. I could be wrong ..............

It is a D4a that is less useful than a D4. Smaller cargo area. Side door instead of tailgate. Narrower cargo opening. Really, the only plus is the larger tires. Otherwise, it is just a newer Discovery. If it did not have a Defender badge, that is what everyone would think.

If you are one of those people that thinks a D4 is great off road, you are lacking in experience.
 

Christian P.

Expedition Leader
Staff member
It is a D4a that is less useful than a D4. Smaller cargo area. Side door instead of tailgate. Narrower cargo opening. Really, the only plus is the larger tires. Otherwise, it is just a newer Discovery. If it did not have a Defender badge, that is what everyone would think.

If you are one of those people that thinks a D4 is great off road, you are lacking in experience.

Was it you who was asking about our moderation skills? In any case here is the problem with this posting.

The first sentence is correct. It is along the spirit of this thread - saying negative things about the new Defender. Even better that's it's the 100th times, it keeps the thread alive and generates traffic.

The second sentence is incorrect. You are directly sending a personal attack to another member. This person may respond with another direct attack and then the thread degenerates and then we are forced to intervene, which sucks for everyone.

Hope this helps to clarify. Happy Friday.
 
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Blaise

Well-known member
It is a D4a that is less useful than a D4. Smaller cargo area. Side door instead of tailgate. Narrower cargo opening. Really, the only plus is the larger tires. Otherwise, it is just a newer Discovery. If it did not have a Defender badge, that is what everyone would think.

It's also 1000lb lighter. 1000lb is not a small difference. You should see the amount of work it takes to drop a few pounds off of structural components. This isn't a small deal.

If you are one of those people that thinks a D4 is great off road, you are lacking in experience.

I regularly trip around the PNW, have driven the entire road system in Alaska over the course of 2mo, been to Moab five times, Death valley 4 times, SW CO three times, spent 6mo in SE Asia, toured NZ, etc etc etc.

And I have yet to be anywhere where my LR3 would hold me back. Wanna see pics of a bone-stock LR3 on Poison Spider? Oh wait, that's an "easy" trail. lol.

So I counter: If you're one of those people who thinks they need a Wrangler Rubicon to travel - you're either in an extreme scenario which doesn't apply to almost anyone on this board, or much more likely you're just compromising like crazy to have extra capability you'll never use. During my 2014-2015 trip which spanned 50k miles across North America I was in a less capable truck (Xterra on 33"s, lift, e-locker, etc), and it was total overkill.

I recently 'converted' a buddy who had this same mindset. He had a lifted 4runner on 33s, lights, bumpers, winch, etc etc etc. His truck caught fire while he was having his rear bumper welded on, and he ended up buying a Grand Cherokee Overland. Guess what? Both him and especially his wife are WAY happier being in a truck which is quieter and more comfortable. And he can still hit 90% of the trails he could before (yes he's aware of the limitations). Not everyone needs the most hardcore solution.
 

mpinco

Expedition Leader
It's also 1000lb lighter. 1000lb is not a small difference. You should see the amount of work it takes to drop a few pounds off of structural components. This isn't a small deal.......

The entire LR product line has lost a 1000lb's over the years. The LR3/4 come in at ~5800lbs curb weight while even the RR is down to ~4800 lbs. Now depending on your use profile that may be a plus but for some the LR3/4 was basically a 3/4 ton truck for towing AND it was a great off-road vehicle. The best of two worlds.

So while the newer LR's maintain the 7700lb tow rating, in reality they are not really suited to that workload profile. (TV should weigh more than trailer) In addition their powertrains are getting smaller.

Agreed on tires. I run 31" and they work fine. My only other requirement is load range E.
 

Blaise

Well-known member
So while the newer LR's maintain the 7700lb tow rating, in reality they are not really suited to that workload profile. (TV should weigh more than trailer) In addition their powertrains are getting smaller.

Agreed on tires. I run 31" and they work fine. My only other requirement is load range E.

The weight loss is a big deal to me. The only times I've found the LR3 to be held back in off-road (and on road situations) has been weight. It can certainly go on a diet, which like you pointed out has happened for the entire product line, thankfully.

Towing capacity is 8klb on the Defender. With 100hp extra and the new SAE standards, I'm expecting that towing is gonna get better. Wheelbase is also relatively unchanged which is an enormous contributor to stability (more so than weight - this is why you see Ford Mondeos with campers behind them in Europe - the relation of trailer stability to speed is to the 4th power!).

I'll challenge you on the E-rated tire bit. I've run E tires and hated the ride quality, and for all the abuse I put my SL-rated Duratracs through, I've never had an issue. I've also reached out to Goodyear and LT tires are designed with increased load capability to handle 80psi internal pressure, not to prevent flats while holding 15psi like most folks think. (Giant disclaimer: My LR3 does not have a winch, armor, roofrack, steel bumpers, etc etc etc which may require the use of an E tire)
 

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