DieselRanger
Well-known member
That's true if you add a 1.7" lift to the Element, and never drive the Defender in anything other than normal ride height.
New Defender Rage/Hate Thread
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Blaise
Well-known member
...and you never encounter anything requiring articulation.
But I think he's joking.
T-Willy
Well-known member
No, it would be true if "production/assembly yielded a configuration different than what was tested."
I expect it was a production/assembly failure -- a failure to secure an engine hose and its clip, which in turn left both dangling in a novel configuration close to an engine heat source.
Not sure how I feel about that. It’ll probably turn into a TSB if other Defenders have the issue.
DieselRanger
Well-known member
Quality control is meant to catch one-off incidents of "production/assembly...configuration different than what was tested," which represent a defect escape rather than a problem with "production and assembly," which in industrial engineering usually refers to the wider process, not necessarily the atomic actions therein.
The quality curve in production always shows a spike in one-off problems early. You work hard to minimize these by validating your production processes via low rate production, combined with increased/more detailed quality inspections. What we understand is that Land Rover is experiencing a slower ramp up in production due to COVID, which could impact quality assurance processes that would necessitate more detailed over-the-shoulder inspections in early production runs. This problem will likely affect all vehicles to varying degrees from all manufacturers for vehicles made after about the middle of March, but most likely new or updated models. So beware the Ides of March...and the months following.
If you see something recurring frequently, then it's either a part design or production design issue. If we see this happen a lot, and the *design* is correct, then that would suggest an assembly line error, most likely owing to worker training or tool/instrument calibration vs. anything inherent in the vehicle.
If this happened a lot across many vehicles from the same manufacturer, that would suggest an inherent quality control issue.
So far this is one guy with one vehicle that had one issue.
DieselRanger
Well-known member
Squeaky wheel gets the grease.
T-Willy
Well-known member
Being a consumer and not an engineer, I did not understand the distinction between quality control and production / assembly. I assumed the former was part of the latter.
And so then, in that case, we have a triple failure:
Production and assembly created the problem; quality control failed to catch and correct the problem; and then, after money changed hands, the dealer (twice) failed at diagnosing or fixing the problem, or providing a replacement vehicle.
I doubt this problem proves systemic, but maybe it will. We'll see
But still, this poor guy. What a ************ way to part with $70K
Blaise
Well-known member
Can somebody bring me up to speed? I have no idea what we're talking about with regards to all this.
I will however say, can the consumers please acknowledge that engineering/manufacturing/quality/etc is a really really really complex process? It's easy to sit back and try to solve this from behind a keyboard - much harder to do from the service advisor's side, or somebody who's writing a TSB/etc.
I will however say, can the consumers please acknowledge that engineering/manufacturing/quality/etc is a really really really complex process? It's easy to sit back and try to solve this from behind a keyboard - much harder to do from the service advisor's side, or somebody who's writing a TSB/etc.
JeepColorado
Well-known member
There's a guy who bought a Defender and did a video of him driving it home from the dealer. On the way home- about 10 miles or so in- the Defender throws an error and says "restrictive performance". He takes it to the dealer twice and they can't figure it out, so he looks around and discovers that a clip holding a hose had burnt off and came loose. He fixed it, but in the process also discovered that the hood latch was coming loose on his brand new and $$$$ Defender.
Is it a one-off manufacturing error? Is it quality controls fault for not catching it? Is it the dealers fault for not doing a thorough inspection/delivery? Is it a design flaw that will require a more extensive fix? ...none of it is good for LR and curiously while this person's other videos remain up on Youtube- this particular video is now down. Is the Green Oval interceding to try to stamp out bad social media reviews?
I do however, completely agree with you, design/development/delivery of a product is very complex and a lot of what we are doing is speculative. A brand new vehicle in a brand new assembly plant is bound to have issues, no matter who is manufacturing it; still, the narrative is bad for a company trying to dig itself out from a reputation of making vehicles that are to put it nicely- quirky at best and totally unreliable at worst.
calicamper
Expedition Leader
I’ll add that even though production of such a complex vehicle isn’t easy, having non standard parts only adds to the issue. For example the hood latches don’t look like anything I’ve seen on modern vehicles which case being different open up all kinds of production and quality issues for a part or parts that are not commonly made by many vendors etc. One of Rovers down sides is the power of order numbers regarding parts when your small potatoes you tend to get the scraps and odd ball vendors vs the big producers. As such the risk of getting bad parts is higher and more difficult to correct. They may only have one source for hood latches and if the part is fubared yeah very difficult to correct.
T-Willy
Well-known member
@JeepColorado explains the problem above. And yes, I have no doubt that that process of designing and then bringing a vehicle to market is very, very complex.
This particular problem--a hose clip burning and hose disconnecting--seems like it would have shown up in testing, so this was likely a glitch in production or assembly--and then quality control. That the dealer twice failed to identify a disconnected hose is something. The hood latch problem is less clear.
On one hand, this is thus far a singular case, and one that is probably an artifact of early production--a complex process that itself surely requires some de-bugging.
On the other hand, it's no less painful for the consumer who, after $70K and ten road miles, ends up with that problem and inadequate dealer support.
EricTyrrell
Expo God
Ouch.
