New gasser for Ford SD

gtbensley

Explorer
Larry,

Thank you for the response outlining my question. It seems you have pretty deep insight and exposure on fords 6.2 and reliability. I still feel it's a solid engine and one I wouldn't mind owning one day.....even if a few have blown up. As far as desiels go.....I'm not going to get involved in that at this moment.
 

Larry

Bigassgas Explorer
Well there is a ton of speculation and opinion in there, and I'm not inclined to address all of it, mostly because many of these ideas have been discussed previously on this forum.

But for starters, I think you are under the assumption that diesel tech, specifically the emissions control, has reached a plateau or glass ceiling of sorts. I think we all agree that the current emissions-laden diesels are lacking some of the reliability of older diesels, but we tend to forget that the automobile industry has been through regulatory cycles like this before. In decades past, there were big pushes to make gasoline engines more green: reduce CO2 emissions; use clean (non-lead) fuel; and get better mpg's. Gasoline engines were forced to make leaps and advances to where they are today, where inline 4 turbo's are providing the same performance as 80's era V8's, all while producing less emissions and getting much better mpg. It really wasn't until the 2007-2008 period that diesel engines saw the same sort of regulatory pressure. Not counting the EGR, we've been living with diesel emissions technology for barely 7 years now, and already these newer designs have made improvements in reliability and mpg. Give it time, and I'm sure the engineers and designers will continue to improve and innovate these engines. If there truly was no development potential left with diesel engines, I don't see why big manufacturers would be putting the money and time into developing new diesel offerings outside of the 3/4 ton market (2.8l duramax, 5.0l cummins, 3.0 VM ecodiesel, supposed diesel offerings for Ford mid-sized and full-sized trucks).

European cities have enacted restrictive legislation on diesel vehicles because, for the longest time, there were few, if any, regulations on diesel emissions for most of those countries. The air quality has suffered greatly in those cities as a result. With the regulations as they exist here in North America, I don't foresee the same problem occurring here. Your implication that most of the major diesel engine makers are cheating emissions is based on the actions of a few. So far, the only company that was caught cheating was VW. The EPA has issued a notice of violation for FCA's VM motori Ecodiesel, though so far nothing has been conclusively proven yet. To date, none of the big domestic diesel makers (Cummins, Powerstroke, Duramax) have been charged with anything. You can speculate all you want about how they might be cheating, but that's all it is....speculation.

You're right that there are more options on the table for HD trucks and hauling than there were in years past: CNG, hyrbid gasoline, hybrid diesel, EV. Who knows, 10-20 years from now, HD trucks and commercial vehicles might be powered by something entirely different from what powers them today. However, your claim that gasoline engines are going to take over the HD/commerical market is way off...gasoline engines are never going to be as fuel efficient or as torquey as the other options (including diesel). You can add a few more gears to the transmission and use forced induction, but it's inherently a less efficient and less torquey design. So maybe there are some people who want a gasoline engine for work applications because its cheaper and easier to work on....but when fuel prices go up, and they will eventually go up, those people are going to turn to other options to power their work vehicles.

Everybody is entitled to their own opinion. I get what you are saying though, but I do not feel that diesels have plateaued. There is a lot of room for improvement and growth but at what cost and what compromise? That cost and compromises are the benefits of what a diesel used possess. Add some forced induction and direct injection to a gas engine and suddenly they are way up there in diesel power numbers with a slim margin of fuel economy difference between a fully emissionized diesel in certain vocations and duty cycles. There are plenty of school bus industry articles out there comparing gas, propane and diesel engines. Diesels are already getting squeaked out in that duty cycle and the direct injected forced induction gas engines aren’t even here yet (still sequentially port injected). That may not hold true for every vocation, duty cycle and vehicle class but it is a reality.

No, I am implicating most or all manufacturers are cheating on emissions nor have I speculated on anything. In fact, I feel confident the US manufactures are well above compliance. Some other European and foreign manufacturers leave some things to ponder.

Again, you are certainly entitled to your opinion whatever that is based upon…


Larry I gotta knock the company a bit, International doesn't have the best reputation in the OTR world.

Hehe, you’re right. As it turns out Advance EGR was not a better way to meet emissions than SCR and trying to sue to EPA may not have been a good idea either. We certainly didn’t make many friends the past 8 years or so with EGR debacles. Things are much better now with SCR Cummins engines as our primary engine for Class 8 trucks. Other engines are forth coming across the board. Also, our Sr Leadership and board members that lead us to almost extinction have all been canned and replaced. The new leaderships seems to have their heads screwed on straight. Time will tell
 

Yroundrdn

Observer
good info guys, thanks for taking the time to put it all up. My last diesel was an 04 Duramax which was great, after the 4th set of injectors.. I've heard from friends who upgraded that they miss the older motors and most have told me they will only go gas from here forward.
 

plainjaneFJC

Deplorable
I got a 2017 crew cab diesel with more options than that one for 50k out the door. The gas is still a better option if you're not towing over 10k constantly.
 

Buliwyf

Viking with a Hammer
$52,000 for 350 DRW diesel chassis cabs in my area.

The diesels with a bed in my area all seem to be upscale rip off models. ($2000 chinese cameras etc.etc.)
 

Larry

Bigassgas Explorer
I can't find any pics of this engine yet. I thought is was supposed to be released by now. Maybe they have too many 6.2's left in inventory?

If I can get one of these:
http://www.libertyford.com/new/Ford/2017-Ford-Superduty-38668cfc0a0e0a6b1c382ff8676b9b65.htm
With a 4.30 gear and a 7.0L gasser, I'll go to a Ford dealer immediately.

I think a crewcab pushes the price to $44,000.

Those are the best trucks right there… Maybe not the Ford part, but base models (Ford XL, RAM ST/Tradesman, Silvy W/T). Base models take us back to the day when trucks were trucks and men were men. Base models today still have all the good stuff of uplevel trucks of 20 years ago with none of the BS that we don’t need. I’m happy with vinyl seats, A/C and Cruise Control. A manual trans would be nice too if they were still an option. At least on the base model GM and RAM trucks manual shift transfercases are standard equipment too. Not sure about new Superduty’s.

A Silverado 3500 Crew Cab short bed 4x4 with an L96 Gas engine can be had for under $40,000. RAM’s usually even cheaper. Still too much money but sure beats the $50,000 to $75,000 fully cream of the crap diesel trucks most people are buying. I'm too cheap for that kind of cost of admission and high maintenance
 

Buliwyf

Viking with a Hammer
The XL base model work truck I'm sitting in right now has cloth seats, AC, power windows, locks, and electric heated mirrors (glass only, not folding, those come with the diesels), and forged aluminum wheels. I have no idea what box you have to check to get an XL with all of that.

It's actually a nice interior. If I were to buy new, I'd get the XL for sure. None of our XL's have vinyl. Just need to spray paint the wheels black on the 1st tire rotation. I've been trying to get Ford to use black wheels, but I guess that goofy silver galvanized finish is some kind of easy to apply industrial stuff or something.
 

plainjaneFJC

Deplorable
I got vinyl seats and rubber floors which I prefer. The new vinyl is better. It has a texture pattern and more stitching. I got the sync 3 touchscreen, led box lights, e.locker, 4wd, cruise control, power windows and locks, and the 360 camera system which is the coolest feature ever, for 50k. It's really a decent truck for the money. I think the margin has to.be small on these compared to the lariat, king ranch, platinums that every one is buying for 60 to 80k.
 

b9ev

Adventurer
I admit to being the person that prefers to buy leather, heated seats, etc. I don't prefer to spend 80k on a new truck but a new car (one that I would choose at least) with similar features will run the same.

That said, sticker on my 2008 Lariat was ~55k. No plans to replace it as it is almost perfect, only thing that I would want is that 360 camera gizmo and a heated steering wheel.
 

Larry

Bigassgas Explorer
The XL base model work truck I'm sitting in right now has cloth seats, AC, power windows, locks, and electric heated mirrors (glass only, not folding, those come with the diesels), and forged aluminum wheels. I have no idea what box you have to check to get an XL with all of that.

It's actually a nice interior. If I were to buy new, I'd get the XL for sure. None of our XL's have vinyl. Just need to spray paint the wheels black on the 1st tire rotation. I've been trying to get Ford to use black wheels, but I guess that goofy silver galvanized finish is some kind of easy to apply industrial stuff or something.

Ford is really good in that you can configure a truck in so many different ways. GM and RAM love to package everything to death where it can be hard to get what you want with out settling on some pricy package and getting stuck with a bunch of BS that you don't want. That said, Chevrolet recently released a decent package called the Alaskan Edition. It is far from a Power Wagon Tradesman and still no rear e-locker but it does give other goodies like the upfitter switches, Duratracs, high amp alternator, skids and a few other things I can't remember. It is a package more geared to snow plowers but I dig the configuration especially the manual shift transfercase in the WT's. Here is one I've been in lust with for a while. Like everything about it but not sure about that bed bar....... http://www.criswellchevroletofthurm...Wheel_Drive_Work_Truck-Thurmont-MD/2917527943
 

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