New Great Divide Expedition Range Rover!?

[EricTyrrell]

Rant mode: On.

I think part of it is that we've all grown disenchanted and cynical since the expeditions of 20-30 years ago, I blame technology for that. Back then, seeing a convoy of Land Rover braving the jungles of Papua New Guinea in grainy photographs and on TV commercials was exciting. These days, between the internet, YouTube, the travel channel and the Survivor and Survivorman daily doses on 300 different cable TV programs... Papua New Guinea, yawn! We've all been there and seen that, usually on a computer screen, it doesn't seem like that big of a deal anymore.

Without straying too far from home, when a guy on a bike crossed America on dirt roads, the Trans-Am trail adventure was "epic", a triumph of man and machine like you said, the guy pretty much became a legend. It was new and uncharted territory (literally.) Today, a convoy of Land Rover does the same in a few weeks, mud on the hood and all, and according to most (including on this forum) it is a boring, pointless, uninspiring, staged, easy, self-promoting exercise, I could do it with my Prius in reverse, I could do it with my eyes closed, what a bunch of ************** for metrosexuals those Land Rovers have become, those tires look ridiculous, give me a basic Defender with fabric seats, etc. The magic seems to somehow be gone out of everything that seemed amazing and exotic just a few short decades ago. It's all been charted by Google maps. I doubt a new Land Rover expedition on the other side of the world would inspire and excite much. It would seem overproduced, fake, showoffish and a waste of money and energy, I bet they slept at the Hilton, I bet they had drones and helicopters, what about the forest, what about world hunger, what about the greenhouse effect and carbon footprint and global warming, ******* you Obama, I have been there at least 37 times and it's not that tough, my cousin was right there on his honeymoon yesterday and sent this video.

It's like music and all that it represented to me when I was a kid growing up in Italy, that's all ancient history too. I loved Kiss and Pink Floyd (guess you can tell how old I am, give or take...) and everytime I caught a tiny glimpse of either band on a newspaper, magazine or TV program I would eat it up. There was no TV rewind button on my remote or a digital version of that magazine. Couldn't wait for the next LP to be released, going to the record store to buy it was an event, and I would read every line of text on the sleeves of those suckers as I played them over and over until they were well worn. That mystique seems to be gone now, when we can find out in 10 seconds flat what our favorite rock band had for breakfast this morning on Facebook. Music doesn't seem that exciting anymore and we can get our aural and visual fix anywhere and anytime for free, or nearly so. No wonder that industry is in big trouble.

I completely agree. I also agree that like the dinosaurs, Camel Trophy had its time. However I believe they can still accomplish something, and that's skilled story telling. In CT we witnessed the hard work that went into preparation, saw things break, things fixed, how they camped, how they crashed, teamwork, team friction, and we heard participant's exhaustion fueled monologues on life. LR's story telling and presentation of the Trans-Am expedition was complete ****. I know there was a good story there, but all we got was a rushed glossy summary of pretty scenery. I want a story as if it were written by Hunter S Thompson and I want hard work.

 

[axels]

It seems funny to me how people get so easily blazé. When the LR4 went accross the US on the TAT all I could think about was that I wanted to do it myself.

Maybe it's that I'm new to the Land Rover world and that I don't mind going offroad in a luxury vehicle (like I would have in an RRC in 89 - but I was too young to drive). As a kid I spent a few years in Tunisia before moving to Germany and I remember how much fun it was driving in the desert, on dunes or rocks in one of my parents' friends FJ40 as well as going hunting in a Nissan Patrol.
What I do not miss to this day is the ruggedness of those vehicles and I love my air conditioned leather interior.

I have taken my LR4 on some pretty difficult trails with its stock Contis on 19s and the only reason I really now have the Compomotive with DuraTracs is primarily for looks Sure they do perform a little better but the Stock LR4 is truly amazing.

I would be delighted to do the GDE in a fully optioned RR, I'd rather be doing it in comfort than any other ways.
As far as lodging accommodations... Hotel beds are so much more comfortable than sleeping in a tent

Besides all of that, if one day LR recreates an event such as the Camel Trophy I'd be the first one watching it and I do hope that they would document it a little better than the TAT trip was.

By the way I still watch the Dakar rally even though the vehicles are packed with electronics and it doesn't even take place in Africa anymore.

 

[zelatore]

Yeah, bring it back as absolutely NO ONE cares. If they do it, are you going to go and plunk down $70k for a new one because you saw them do something in the woods with what would have to be a heavily modified one? Or, do you think it needs to come back out of romanticism?

Actually, I wasn't saying I thought they should bring it back, so much as saying it seemed the poster I was quoting was saying that.

Not that I don't agree - to some extent at least.

I disagree that 'absolutely NO ONE cares'. Sure, the typically demographic for a new RR doesn't care, but that's because Land Rover has pushed more to be a luxury marque than an expedition marque. Yes they still maintain a high level of off road capability, but each new generation of trucks moves just that little bit further from utility and toward luxury.

But what then? What differentiates a Land Rover from any number of other luxury SUVs? Porsche, VW, Mercedes, BMW? Let's face it, if you aren't actually going to go off road (and we've stipulated that the average owner isn't going to) then you'd be better off with one of the soft-roaders, right?

What differentiates Rover from the others is the history and heritage of those early vehicles that did in fact conquer new lands and blaze new trails. The trucks that competed in the likes of the Camel Trophy. Sure the average owner, then or now, wasn't/isn't likely to chuck his Rover into a river or build a bridge out of downed trees to cross a gorge. But the idea that the trucks had done so, even if they were modified versions, helps make that sale. Just as every person who buys a Jeep, be it a Patriot or a Rubicon, is buying a little bit of a rock crawler, every person who buys a Rover is buying a little bit of an expedition vehicle. Whether they know/admit it or not.

I know there's more money in the luxury game than in the off-road game - just look at the $100K+ Rangie today. But my fear is that if they don't keep pushing the envelope, even if only a little and with a low-volume model like the (upcoming) new Defender, then they loose that magic that the name is build on. Then we just have another generic luxury SUV.

So maybe the average guy buying a RR doesn't care or know anything explicit about things like the Camel Trophy, but in his subconscious he knows. There's nothing like the image of your truck-or at least one that looks like yours- conquering some impossible obstacle to stoke ego and hence sales.

 

[uli2000]

I saw a truck with three of these and what looked like maybe an original Great Divide RR Classic heading east on I-80 between Wendover and SLC Ut a couple of days before the OP saw them in Telluride. I went by them so fast I didn't get a chance to snap a pic.

 

[LR Max]

I completely agree. I also agree that like the dinosaurs, Camel Trophy had its time. However I believe they can still accomplish something, and that's skilled story telling. In CT we witnessed the hard work that went into preparation, saw things break, things fixed, how they camped, how they crashed, teamwork, team friction, and we heard participant's exhaustion fueled monologues on life. LR's story telling and presentation of the Trans-Am expedition was complete ****. I know there was a good story there, but all we got was a rushed glossy summary of pretty scenery. I want a story as if it were written by Hunter S Thompson and I want hard work.

That is a good point. We want a good story. However the problem is that marketing wouldn't take kind to telling the truth. Apparently on the TAT, the LR4s kept going through tires. I doubt that would've been published...ever. Any kind of short coming might be seen as a mark against the vehicle, and thus a mark against sales.

Now if they had done something that would have been WAY beyond the normal vehicle capabilities, then yes its fine but when they just break...because they break, they aren't going to tell anyone.

And vehicle failures always lead to an adventure.

 

[Eniam17]

Rant mode: On.

One of the best posts I've seen in a while! better than anything I have written that is for sure. Many great points in here. I am amazed at how many people are stuck 30+ years ago. I have great childhood memories of watching the Saba Malaysia video over, and over, and over when my Dad came home with a 97' Discovery and that is what got me hooked on Rovers. But I think the current Rover lineup is as great as ever and the brand does a lot more to promote it's offroad heritage than anyone else IMO.

Everyone is so quick to hate everything LR does these days, I don't understand it. Personally, I enjoyed watching my friends stock LR3 keep up with/out perform all kinds of Series/Classics/D1's, D90's, etc. at the last Rover rally we attended. But hey, the newer Rovers are useless offroad....

 

[EricTyrrell]

Everyone is so quick to hate everything LR does these days, I don't understand it. Personally, I enjoyed watching my friends stock LR3 keep up with/out perform all kinds of Series/Classics/D1's, D90's, etc. at the last Rover rally we attended. But hey, the newer Rovers are useless offroad....

Land Rovers used to be made for hard work and hard working people. There was a gradual decline with a cliff somewhere around the 90s.

You could replace an axle in the bush. I've even seen a head gasket done in the bush. They were designed to be worked on, to be approachable. Not now. Not even close.

You could take apart the vehicle like legos. You could know the machine inside and out. You could customize the vehicle for any need. Now you get the option what degree of gangsta bling wheels you want.

You could rebuild the entire vehicle from the frame up. Now, what frame? Modern unibody construction has a very finite lifetime and strength limits. Full size trucks still use ladder frame construction for good reason.

You could get it dirty inside and just hose it out. Now, good luck. Hope you enjoyed your 37 zone climate control and 10 acres of leather.

They didn't completely isolate you from the world. You were exposed enough, but connected to the environment. Very important to the experience of adventure.

They could last forever. If the part isn't available, it can probably be made due to its simplicity, or improvise. Now you need a 5-axis cnc, $20,000 diagnostic systems, and an industrial adhesives catalog.

They weren't full of plastics which crack with UV exposure, discolor due to the fire retardants, are generally weak, and are extremely difficult to repair.

Have you seen a firetruck LR4, LR2, Evoque, Range Rover, anything?
One on tracks?
One on 37's for arctic use?
One with a full size spare located stock where it can actually be used readily?
One with power take off for running accessories?
One armed and armored for defense use?
One converted to a camper?
One with a hunting platform?
One with 6 wheel drive?
One used as a ambulance?
One with a flatbed?
One with 16" wheels for mounting real off-road tires?
One with a soft top so you can really enjoy the environment?

No, but they go to the mall in absolute luxury, which I couldn't give less of a **** about.

 

[Eniam17]

I hear you EricTyrell, and I know what you are talking about. I love my 89 Classic for all of the reasons you mentioned. I am not saying I'm 100% excited about the way the brand is going, but unfortunately I feel they are doing what they have to in order to survive in the global automobile industry in 2014. I don't know how a brand can incorporate all of the things you mentioned above and still remain a viable for-profit business in this day and age... I wish it wasn't that way.

 

[proper4wd]

Did you carve this post into a stone tablet and send it to Expedition Portal central to be posted via the Pony Express?

Can you name me a first world brand that still sticks to all of those ideals? (even Toyota doesn't)

If that's what you want, keep owning a 90 or 110. Build yourself a 300Tdi 110 on a galvanised frame with a galvanised firewall that will last forever. Just understand that globally, you are in the microscopic minority in terms of what you want in a vehicle.

You can not fault Land Rover for wanting to build a successful, global enterprise.

 

[brickpaul65]

I also think there are a lot of rose colored glasses about how things used to be. The automobile industry is prime for nostalgia.

I know so many people who are just in love with certain vehicles ranging from muscle cars, old Mercedes diesel cars (70's to 80's), to VW beetles. Honestly, most of those cars cannot hold candles to vehicles today. They are still great because you can like whatever you want but we all overlook the negatives to what we like, if we like them enough . I am as guilty as an anyone. I still love my wife's mkIII and it just required a new transmission and transfer case due to a weird failure - not pm related or anything, it stripped the output shaft of the transmission and wrecked the transfer case.

The auto industry has a lot of things to balance, bloated wages, arbitrary gas mileage requirements that conflict with emission requirements that force the engine to run less efficient (contaminants per gallon instead total contaminants during operation - miles driven), and costs. If it was profitable or we were willing to pay for it to become profitable, it would be done.

 

[UnfrozenCaveman]

Tata can (obviously) build whatever sells to the market they want to pursue.

Just my opinion, but after spending the recent weekends replacing the water sucking, cylinder sleeve slapping V8 in my Defender, I'll stick with the Series trucks, thanks

...yes, it's hot today so I drove the GTi instead...

 

[LR Max]

...yes, it's hot today so I drove the GTi instead...

That was Tuesday for me. While cruising down the interstate I was fine but the second I hit traffic, swamp came into the truck and I was not a happy camper.

 

[Eniam17]

Did you carve this post into a stone tablet and send it to Expedition Portal central to be posted via the Pony Express?

Can you name me a first world brand that still sticks to all of those ideals? (even Toyota doesn't)

If that's what you want, keep owning a 90 or 110. Build yourself a 300Tdi 110 on a galvanised frame with a galvanised firewall that will last forever. Just understand that globally, you are in the microscopic minority in terms of what you want in a vehicle.

You can not fault Land Rover for wanting to build a successful, global enterprise.

Finally, someone else gets what I'm saying! couldn't agree more. The brand has no choice at this point. Evolve or fail, wether the few thousand enthusiasts who post online like it or not. pretty simple.

 

[Tohelluride]

Saw it again.....this time.....I had my iPad handy. A lady was driving it this time.

 

[KyleT]

Interesting. I got passed by what looked like the new discovery sport up raton pass a few weeks ago cladded in vinyl camouflage.