New guy here with Van questions!

[IPB]

So I have secretly lusted over lifted and 4x4 Vans for several years and have finally been given the go ahead from the wife to build one! I thought I had my platform picked out, Ford Extended Body and converted with the U-Joint kit. After searching for the past few months I thought about exploring the Chevy side of the house. I then stumbled across Boulder Offroad and their 6" lift for AWD Chevy and GMC vans. Before I ask which is a better platform/performer I'll tell you a bit about what I intend to do with this future beast.

We are fairly avid campers/bikers/trail runners/hikers/OCR Racers, so Ideally we will use this rig to go in between events, camping up in the NH/VT/ME area, and occasionally the beaches here in RI and in MA. I will also be pulling a 12ft snowmobile trailer with two sleds or two ATV's depending on the season.
it won't be a primary vehicle, but it will likely see a lot of use. Not a lot of rugged terrain, mostly fire and logging roads, and the occasional off road jaunt to get to hunting locations.

As to the interior I want basic self contained camper with water, fresh and gray, sleeping for two, and a place to be out of the rain. I won't be doing a fridge, as I will put the Yeti in there, and I may of may not do heat down the road.

Mechanically I will be looking to do most of the labor myself. I've done multiple motor swaps, lifted and lowered numerous vehicles and modified every thing I've owned over the last 20 years. I'm actually looking forward to putting something on the lift and tearing through it over the winter.

I've had 4x4 vehicles jeeps and trucks so I know what to expect there, but is the Chevy AWD platform any good? If it is, how is it when lifted? As I said I don't envision any heavy trail duty with this rig, but I want to build a competent performer that can keep up with all of the stuff my wife and I do.

So all that being said any input or experience you guys could provide will be greatly appreciated!!!

 

[Mwilliamshs]

I'd shun the AWD GM in a lifted application just due to increased maintenance of IFS when it's raised. At stock heights they're fine but when the angles get modified and big tires increase the loads placed on idler arms, tie rod ends, etc they become a pain. BTDT.

 

[IPB]

Very good points, I think their specific kit includes the parts to alleviate those issues, but if not definitely some thing for me to be wary of!

 

[mezmochill]

As I said I don't envision any heavy trail duty with this rig, but I want to build a competent performer that can keep up with all of the stuff my wife and I do.

You won't need an AWD express lifted then. Have fun with extra money you'll save.

 

[Mwilliamshs]

There are two ways to lift an IFS. I've done both on GMs in the past.
1) move non-moving things away from the frame with drop brackets.
2) move moving things away from the frame by increasing the angle/length of them.

1) is bad because the brackets and their attachment points, especially at the frame, become weak-points. It's good because the lifespan of certain components (cv joints, etc) isn't greatly reduced BUT you just keep tightening things up until the threads are trashed or you don't tighten things and they get loose then tear, break, etc. I've seen the lift brackets/subframe welded directly to the truck frame and that worked pretty well until the differential got trashed by a cv-joint failure and the subframe had to be cut off for the differential to be removed then welded back on. Not a move I'd make on an expo rig. A weekend mud-toy might be alright. This method changes the angularity of the front driveshaft which on an IFS rig, was designed to never move at all. Guess what? It'll vibrate. ViIiIibBrRaAaAatTtTeEe.

2) is bad because the lifespan of certain parts (cv joints, etc) is greatly reduced and the angularity of the suspension is thrown off ruining the ride quality, handling, and tire wear. You can reduce this change in angularity by using longer a-arms, etc but then your track-width gets crazy and you're exponentially increasing the loads placed on stock frame attachment points, bracketry, etc. I've seen a-arm mounts ripped right off the frame.

The above methods share some common weaknesses as well. They tend to reduce overall ground clearance. They make routine maintenance a pain. Nearly all differential lowering brackets make oil changes a hassle. The bigger tires (why else lift it?) that get installed exponentially increase wear on tie rod ends, ball joints, etc.

The kit you mentioned uses a combination of new knuckles and differential drop brackets to achieve a mix of 1) and 2) above. It also uses spacers to allow use of stock CV axles. I would never recommend CV joint spacers. It just uses blocks to lift the rear, the cheapest and lamest method there is. It offers an optional replacement for the front driveshaft because the differential drop brackets case driveline vibrations.

IFS rides great and can hold up pretty well under the right conditions. 1/2-ton IFS doesn't withstand lifted use well at all. 1-ton stuff is usually okay so long as the driver thinks before he acts. I'm not knocking IFS or GM vehicles. I really like the AWD Express rigs but they're not well suited to lifting IMHO. Too bad the 3/4-ton vans are so rare.

 

[IPB]

You won't need an AWD express lifted then. Have fun with extra money you'll save.

Some of the areas I went in my old truck on 35's I just don't see a stock height Van loaded with gear making it down with out some potential damage.

There are two ways to lift an IFS. I've done both on GMs in the past.
1) move non-moving things away from the frame with drop brackets.
2) move moving things away from the frame by increasing the angle/length of them.

1) is bad because the brackets and their attachment points, especially at the frame, become weak-points. It's good because the lifespan of certain components (cv joints, etc) isn't greatly reduced BUT you just keep tightening things up until the threads are trashed or you don't tighten things and they get loose then tear, break, etc. I've seen the lift brackets/subframe welded directly to the truck frame and that worked pretty well until the differential got trashed by a cv-joint failure and the subframe had to be cut off for the differential to be removed then welded back on. Not a move I'd make on an expo rig. A weekend mud-toy might be alright. This method changes the angularity of the front driveshaft which on an IFS rig, was designed to never move at all. Guess what? It'll vibrate. ViIiIibBrRaAaAatTtTeEe.

2) is bad because the lifespan of certain parts (cv joints, etc) is greatly reduced and the angularity of the suspension is thrown off ruining the ride quality, handling, and tire wear. You can reduce this change in angularity by using longer a-arms, etc but then your track-width gets crazy and you're exponentially increasing the loads placed on stock frame attachment points, bracketry, etc. I've seen a-arm mounts ripped right off the frame.

The above methods share some common weaknesses as well. They tend to reduce overall ground clearance. They make routine maintenance a pain. Nearly all differential lowering brackets make oil changes a hassle. The bigger tires (why else lift it?) that get installed exponentially increase wear on tie rod ends, ball joints, etc.

The kit you mentioned uses a combination of new knuckles and differential drop brackets to achieve a mix of 1) and 2) above. It also uses spacers to allow use of CV joints. I would never recommend CV joint spacers. It just uses blocks to lift the rear, the cheapest and lamest method there is. It offers an optional replacement for the front driveshaft because the differential drop brackets case driveline vibrations.

IFS rides great and can hold up pretty well under the right conditions. 1/2-ton IFS doesn't withstand lifted use well at all. 1-ton stuff is usually okay so long as the driver thinks before he acts. I'm not knocking IFS or GM vehicles. I really like the AWD Express rigs but they're not well suited to lifting IMHO. Too bad the 3/4-ton vans are so rare.

Great insight! I was a bit worried about the potential for limited ground clearance given the dropped components. Seems just like more stuff to break, and a lot of special order parts.

 

[Accrete]

Greetings IPB and welcome to the forums!

I'll share my 2bits on our 2010 Chevy AWD van conversion.
I think you might be pushing the build to the max if you went with the 1500 (can find them used), but would be ok?? if you happened upon a rare 2500 AWD?
We have the shorter AWD lift from BORvans and really like what it did for the ride (stiffened it up a bit and we are running E rated 265/70/r17). Our setup typically runs right around 6800 to 6900 depending on how much gold panning gear my wife backs under the bed platform ;O. We were towing a ~2500lb-at-scales 15ft trailer without issue so we still had a good margin of error.

The big plus for us, on our soggy Oregon Coast roads is that AWD is automatically ready when the need arises as it does nearly every week here. We drive on the forestry trails and such that you mention and gave up the hard core off roading when we sold the FJ40 ChevOta : ) and moved away from the Rubicon Trail area.

Oh, an after thought...our rig is my wife's daily driver and she loves it!! She is tiny at 5'3" and has to climb up to get in, but the view from up there is nice.

YMMV,
Thom

 

[IPB]

Thanks Accrete, I appreciate the real world info/experience! I also took a look at your build thread, nice looking rig!!

 

[Johny5]

Having lifted my savana with 05+ ford diffs, It was pretty straight forward.
I did not have to pull the transmission to convert to 4wd or modify the exhaust or gas tank.

 

[IPB]

Do you have a build thread or any additional info on how you did this?

 

[Johny5]

Do you have a build thread or any additional info on how you did this?

http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/threads/146009-Johny5-s-stealth-camper-van

 

[jdharrin]

You mentioned EB Ford. AWD GM vans are regular wheelbase only.

 

[tgreening]

I'll put my vote in for the Ford side of things. It's hard to beat a solid axle leaf sprung 4x for durability and dead nuts simplicity.

 

[86cj]

Only you know how tough hunting camp road is so if you need a big lift or are going to build a heavy full interior the AWD's 7300 GVW could be a little too lightweight.

I would not recommend the AWD Van to a novice offroader, picking your line and using momentum is key to making the rough stuff. The AWD transfer-case's 35-65 split works great and can send power to the wheel with traction, a real transfer-case with 4 low is easy to bolt in. I have been all over New England back country for the last 25 years and could not find much to challenge a lifted 4x4. I have been enjoying an AWD Van for the last 3 seasons and it has crossed both the White and Green Mountains during a big Nor'easter. These things love snow, the steering ability is so much better than "High-lock or 4-Hi" real 4x4's have, just goes where you point it literally..

Just to be clear I am an AWD Van cheerleader and have drank the Kool-Aid, I also think a U- Joint E-350 V10 on 37"s looks awesome and is the best Expo Van for the toughest trails.



Most open forest roads are patrolled by a stock 1/2 ton 4x4 Pickup on 265's,.. just sayin'.........
.
.

 

[Herbie]

I'm in year 6 with my Chevy Astro. 3 AWD, 3 4WD, and lifted for the last 4 years. So far, so good. Out here with our desert sand, AWD is the best solution, but I like having 4Low so I can go slower over the rougher stuff without having to ride the brakes, etc. A few enterprising folks have figured out the parts mish-mash to get AWD AND a 2-speed transfer case together.

U-Joint E-Series are vastly more capable, but also MUCH more expensive - hard to justify if you aren't going to use it in the really rough stuff.