New guy with gen3 montero
- Thread starter jhill15
- Start date
Mountainman75
New member
Looking at you're alignment chart, it's no wonder you are pulling to the right. The LF and RR camber settings are the culprits.
Learn to do your own alignments (assuming you have a flat and level shop floor). Grab a digital level and a steel bracket and some bolts.
http://forums.corral.net/forums/handling/931155-how-do-your-own-alignments-low-cost-effective.html
Some string, a DIY camber gauge, a tape measure, and some patience and you can get the feel of it quickly. We do all the alignments on my families vehicles and our rally cars at our shop, nothing fancy other than the 2 post lift.
Most vehicles you can only adjust the toe and camber angles. Castor angles are set from the factory, unless you get shock mounts that can be adjusted (not recommended).
Measure what you have, jack up one corner, adjust, lower the vehicle, bounce it and roll it forward and back a few feet, remeasure. Adjust again and repeat till you get what's needed.
To fix what you've got going on, you need to get camber angle for the fronts on both sides as close to symmetrical as possible, and then the camber angles for the rear as close as symmetrical as possible.
Once you have that, then you can check toe in the front and the back. Takes a few seconds with a tape measure and a buddy. (a buddy always helps for suspension alignments). Look at what the specs are, probably 1/8" to 1/4" toe in front. Rear can be zero to 1/8" in.
Doing it yourself gives you a much better sense for what condition your rig is in.
*ps. Back when I was 'yota service manager I saw way too many techs on the alignment machine who would just "get it into spec". They had no clue what they were doing or how to balance an alignment out so it drives right. The worst thing about modern machines is it gives them a "range" to hit and they just bump stuff around till it hits it. Seen so many cars aligned that wouldn't drive straight. if you find an old school guy who knows how to measure and then align it, you are way better off than a modern machine.
Learn to do your own alignments (assuming you have a flat and level shop floor). Grab a digital level and a steel bracket and some bolts.
http://forums.corral.net/forums/handling/931155-how-do-your-own-alignments-low-cost-effective.html
Some string, a DIY camber gauge, a tape measure, and some patience and you can get the feel of it quickly. We do all the alignments on my families vehicles and our rally cars at our shop, nothing fancy other than the 2 post lift.
Most vehicles you can only adjust the toe and camber angles. Castor angles are set from the factory, unless you get shock mounts that can be adjusted (not recommended).
Measure what you have, jack up one corner, adjust, lower the vehicle, bounce it and roll it forward and back a few feet, remeasure. Adjust again and repeat till you get what's needed.
To fix what you've got going on, you need to get camber angle for the fronts on both sides as close to symmetrical as possible, and then the camber angles for the rear as close as symmetrical as possible.
Once you have that, then you can check toe in the front and the back. Takes a few seconds with a tape measure and a buddy. (a buddy always helps for suspension alignments). Look at what the specs are, probably 1/8" to 1/4" toe in front. Rear can be zero to 1/8" in.
Doing it yourself gives you a much better sense for what condition your rig is in.
*ps. Back when I was 'yota service manager I saw way too many techs on the alignment machine who would just "get it into spec". They had no clue what they were doing or how to balance an alignment out so it drives right. The worst thing about modern machines is it gives them a "range" to hit and they just bump stuff around till it hits it. Seen so many cars aligned that wouldn't drive straight. if you find an old school guy who knows how to measure and then align it, you are way better off than a modern machine.
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jhill15
Explorer
This is awesome, and thank you for the link. I'm not sure if I have enough confidence to pull something like this off. I will say you are so right about the alignment machine. I sat and watched the entire process and it was exactly how you explained it. They put your make and model in the alignment machine, up pops some factory specs, and then they turn the bolts until the tires get it in the green area on the monitor. It even beeps to let them know they are in spec....
I can see where this wouldn't be accurate all the time.
plh
Explorer
JHill, Looks to me that your "new" adjusted Camber and Toe settings are correct to the FSM. Front Specs are Toe: 2.5mm +/-2.5mm Camber: 0 degrees +/- 30' (right and left wheels within 30' - you may be a little off here) and for reference (difficult or impossible to adjust without being put on a frame bending rack) Caster: 3 degrees 60' +/- 1 degree (right and left wheels within 30' you may be a little off here) You can grab the FSM from http://www.mitsubishilinks.com
Hi all. Been lurking around. Love this thread. I've got a 2005 LTD. Back to the rear subwoofer, mine is blown as well. Does anyone know what the specs were of the original speaker? OHMS, Watts, Hz etc... I'm concerned due to the factory amp about possibly deviating from the factory specs.
jhill15
Explorer
Thanks canyonero! I couldn't find any of that info either. So what I did was order a sub with duel voice coils. That way if the factory specs were 2ohm I could bridge the sub. I was hoping that when I pulled the factory sub that some of that information would be stamped on the magnet... but no luck.
So first I tried the sub at 2ohms and it was moving so much at a low volume that I didnt feel good about putting the trim back on for fear that I would blow the sub and have pull all that stuff off again. It sounds good at 4ohms.
Im assuming that all the speakers are 4ohms but I could be wrong about that.
It also could be that the sub I bought is a cheap sub and despite it being a duel voice coil might not be able the handle the ohm difference..
I would recommend not cheaping out on a sub like I did lol and spending an extra $50 for something better that you know is gonna sound amazing.
Hope any of this helped
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Mountainman75
New member
Caster is NOT adjustable per se, but it will change slightly when you adjust camber and toe (the only two adjustments you have). So just ignore that number right now.
Camber, put simply, is how much the wheel is tilted over. Negative camber means the top of the wheel is tilted towards the centerline of the vehicle.
If you have opposed wheels that are at different camber angles, they will fight each other.
Go look at his alignment numbers, the front left (drivers front) is leaned in (negative camber) 0.3 degrees more than the front right (passengers front). This makes the front end want to turn right, all the time.
Now look at the rear alignment numbers. The Right rear (passenger rear) is leaning in 0.5 degrees more than the left rear (drivers side). This makes the rear want to drift left.
Combined you have the front axle trying to run right and the back trying to run left, so the vehicle tries to rotate about its center point to the right when moving forwards. (if they both leaned right it would be more of a crabbing motion). This is probably exacerbated when you hit the brakes, and makes it pull sharply to the right.
Being "within spec" and being aligned to where it will track straight and true are two different things. I've never seen a tech on a lift ever try and match sides and angles so it drives properly. I can set a vehicle within spec, and it would still be horrible and squirrely driving. You need to have the wheels on the came axles set to similar numbers or they fight each other.
Toe in you always set last, it mainly affects how a vehicle initiates a turn. Too much toe in and it will feel darty and jumpy when turned. Too little and it won't turn in smoothly.
Again, ignore caster angles unless you've had a bent frame or major body work and need ti to be rebuilt. It's set in the suspension component design and hard to change from the factory.
Always check tire pressures.
Roll it in, put down tape to get track widths.
Check camber, adjust. Measure after bouncing and rolling vehicle. Repeat.
Then check toe (typically adjusted with tie rod ends, or in the rear with leading link rod ends)
If you've got a wrecked car, all bets are off till its returned to proper specs.
jhill15
Explorer
The guy at c adam toney showed me on his monitor how the toe was set by the dealer and it looked like this
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and the camber was like this
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So from what im getting is the toe looks more like this after the 2nd alignment?
/ |
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You guys know way more than I ever thought about alignments. Im glad to have your alls help! Thank you!
I need to get a car fax. Im not sure if it has ever been in a wreck the guy i bought it off of said it hadn't, but I would be curious to see.
/ \
\ /
and the camber was like this
/ \
So from what im getting is the toe looks more like this after the 2nd alignment?
/ |
| \
You guys know way more than I ever thought about alignments. Im glad to have your alls help! Thank you!
I need to get a car fax. Im not sure if it has ever been in a wreck the guy i bought it off of said it hadn't, but I would be curious to see.
Jay Ayala
Explorer
Hey jhill,
I've been meaning to ask, and please forgive my ignorance, but what is OBX?
jhill15
Explorer
Yesssirs Outer Banks, NC.
We love it there and vacation there every year. This year we will be in Avon for the 4th of July.