New Jeep Pick Up to be unveiled...The Gladiator

[Todd n Natalie]

The only extra paperwork they would need to come up with is some EPA (or CARB if sold in Ca.) emissions compliance stuff. But even that is a technicality. As an aftermarket supplier, they're not 'REQUIRED' to certify anything. The OEM must certify its fully compliant when its first sold as a new vehicle. After that, the owner of the vehicle becomes fully responsible for its continued compliance. (And many, many things we change on our vehicles put them out of compliance with a lot of different laws.)

But law makers are starting to attack companies that produce or install non compliant equipment now. At the moment, I only directly know of emissions related cases here in California, but the precedent is now there. As an example, a motorcycle muffler company was basically fined out of existence, and now many muffler manufacturers won't even ship into Ca. since they can be held liable for fines. Same is happening for engine tuner chips/modules.

Wow. What was once hot rodders heaven will be no more soon at that rate....

 

[Clutch]

An doesn't the Lexus have a better rating than the 4 in the lab crash tests?

I dunno, does it? Never pay too much attention to that stuff (as I really don't care )...still trying to decide which one is uglier.

 

[Wallygator]

I dunno, does it? Never pay too much attention to that stuff (as I really don't care )...still trying to decide which one is uglier.

Yeah I would have to look it up...well I can't find anything, but it does have more air bags and all kinds of "safety" crap the 4 doesn't have. The uglier the better.

 

[DaveInDenver]

It is a bit of a gray area....


Pulled from that article I linked:

The Icon FJ45 is virtually a brand-new vehicle. Ward starts with an original FJ45 truck or chassis — which at this point is almost as hard to find in the U.S. as someone without an opinion about health care — and by the time he's done, he has delivered a new rig that looks vintage, but almost every component, from the wheels to the roof, is brand new and thoroughly modern. In fact, all that's carried over are a few inches of the donor truck's frame and the vehicle identification number plate so the truck doesn't have to be smogged.

It's not unusual to buy and sell bare frames with VINs and titles. You can't recycle a VIN to put on something else but most states are indifferent for removing and replacing a VIN plate for repair. IOW, if you have a legal FJ40 that gets restored it's still an FJ40. You can't take a FJ40 VIN and put it on a HZJ75 since there was never an MSO from Toyota for such a vehicle. It's a question of legal deception, which is what those Land Rover guys got in trouble for. They were circumventing import laws.

 

[Clutch]

Yeah I would have to look it up...well I can't find anything, but it does have more air bags and all kinds of "safety" crap the 4 doesn't have. The uglier the better.

Gee-bus...the styling of all the vehicles in recent years, very hard to look at.

Gladiator is only the half way good looking one, of course it is still sticking to its' roots.

 

[Clutch]

It's not unusual to buy and sell bare frames with VINs and titles. You can't recycle a VIN to put on something else but most states are indifferent for removing and replacing a VIN plate for repair. IOW, if you have a legal FJ40 that gets restored it's still an FJ40. You can't take a FJ40 VIN and put it on a HZJ75 since there was never an MSO from Toyota for such a vehicle. It's a question of legal deception, which is what those Land Rover guys got in trouble for. They were circumventing import laws.

What I mean by "gray area" is...a company can build and sell a brand new vehicle, and not have to worry about emissions or safety requirements. While cool that they can still do that, but also kinda BS too.

As @Charles R was saying, only a matter of time before they bring the hammer down on companies like that.

 

[DaveInDenver]

What I mean by "gray area" is...a company can build and sell a brand new vehicle, and not have to worry about emissions or safety requirements. While cool that they can still do that, but also kinda BS too.

As @Charles R was saying, only a matter of time before they bring the hammer down on companies like that.

But it's not a new car, it took finding an existing legal and suitable donor vehicle with paperwork to start with. They aren't conjuring up a new vehicle without a title chain already as OEMs do.

The authorities don't like it because it ignores their rules but it's up cycling by taking an old piece of junk 1962 FJ40 with it's smoggy carb'd 1F, bench seat, lap belts and chest spearing steering wheel and at least making it more or less modern with EFI and 4-point harnesses. They should love Icon and Proffitt.

 

[Clutch]

But it's not a new car, it took finding an existing legal and suitable donor vehicle with paperwork to start with. They aren't conjuring up a new vehicle without a title chain already as OEMs do.

But everything on it is brand spanking new, except the vin and paper work. Isn't like they are stripping down an existing vehicle and restoring it like the FJ Company or Proffitt's does.

They are skating the safety and emissions requirements of building a brand new vehicle by simply pulling off the vin. Hell, the only thing Toyota on an Icon is the vin tag. Calling it a restoration is a huge stretch.

 

[DaveInDenver]

But everything on it is brand spanking new, except the vin and paper work. Isn't like they are stripping down an existing vehicle and restoring it like the FJ Company or Proffitt's does.

I guess I don't see the real distinction in a Stage 3 Proffitt restoration with a R2.8 & 4L80 conversion compared to an Icon. Both are keeping an old vehicle on the road and taking advantage of rules that allow them not to smog them like new production. It all splitting hairs. Nothing says you can't repair your own vehicle to prolong its life and when you do it has to be only with factory original parts. In fact the government specifically says you don't have to do that in the Magnuson-Moss Act. Perhaps modification isn't protected, that is a slippery slope. Most states allow for mods within an unspecific envelope, but it's not clear. In Colorado I think technically solid axle swaps are illegal (there is a statement that suspension must be factory configuration) but nothing says I have to keep a Toyota 8" axle.

 

[Clutch]

I guess I don't see the real distinction in a Stage 3 Proffitt restoration with a R2.8 & 4L80 conversion compared to an Icon. Both are keeping an old vehicle on the road and taking advantage of rules that allow them not to smog them like new production.

Nothing on an Icon is from the original vehicle. Except the vin. The old vehicle is parted out, and not being kept on the road.

 

[DaveInDenver]

Nothing on an Icon is from the original vehicle. Except the vin. The old vehicle is parted out, and not being kept on the road.

Proffitt doesn't reuse even a single bolt on a stage 3 either. Both of them either reuse body panels or have to use aftermarket for bad ones, like aluminum tubs.

 

[Clutch]

Proffitt doesn't reuse even a single bolt on a stage 3 either. Both of them either reuse body panels or have to use aftermarket for bad ones, like aluminum tubs.

Sure they do, but it isn't built completely from scratch like Icon does. I dunno, just see it as a way for someone to build a brand new vehicle and skate the laws. Not that it is bad thing....kinda cool really. If I could afford one, I would have one...Naaaah probably still be a cheap SOB.

 

[DaveInDenver]

It's like your opinion, man. Can't believe I got trolled into yet another "Clutch Hates on Icon" thread.

 

[Wallygator]

What I mean by "gray area" is...a company can build and sell a brand new vehicle, and not have to worry about emissions or safety requirements. While cool that they can still do that, but also kinda BS too.

As @Charles R was saying, only a matter of time before they bring the hammer down on companies like that.

I think you mean it's BS because it seems like a double standard with how strict they are to the manufacturers but allow these companies to do whatever. An as far as "bring the hammer down", I feel that will have to do with which direction our government trends in the future. One side is pro business and the other is not so much.

But it's not a new car, it took finding an existing legal and suitable donor vehicle with paperwork to start with. They aren't conjuring up a new vehicle without a title chain already as OEMs do.

The authorities don't like it because it ignores their rules but it's up cycling by taking an old piece of junk 1962 FJ40 with it's smoggy carb'd 1F, bench seat, lap belts and chest spearing steering wheel and at least making it more or less modern with EFI and 4-point harnesses. They should love Icon and Proffitt.

That's right the government doesn't like to not be in control and again depending on which way it trends will determine if these type companies retain their free reign.

But everything on it is brand spanking new, except the vin and paper work. Isn't like they are stripping down an existing vehicle and restoring it like the FJ Company or Proffitt's does.

They are skating the safety and emissions requirements of building a brand new vehicle by simply pulling off the vin. Hell, the only thing Toyota on an Icon is the vin tag. Calling it a restoration is a huge stretch.

They are skating the rules and I don't care, I just wish I could afford one.

 

[Charles R]

Something to also think about is that we're not talking about how WELL it does on the various crash tests. That's a rating the insurance companies have developed with the national highway traffic safety institute.(NHSTI) We're talking about the minimum federally mandated standards set in the federal motor vehicle safety standard (FMVSS).

If we're taking what the guy said at face value, and i see no reason not to... It can be implied that somewhere along the development of the JL (and maybe the even the JK) chassis they most likely did a test with a V8 CAD file, or even a test mule, and it failed. There were probably plenty of meetings about it. And in the end, they decided it wasn't worth the time and money to develop that option further.

The aftermarket could step up because they do not have to comply to the same regulations.