Next Gen Wrangler to Get 3.0L EcoDiesel and 8-speed Auto
- Thread starter duckhunter71
- Start date
I hope all of you who are excited about a Diesel engine in the Wrangler have done your research about the BS emissions equipment on modern diesels...on the pickups there is an EGR system and DPF system. Both are ridiculous systems and I can't believe that engineers couldn't come up with something better to meet emissions. EGR(exhaust gas recirculation) shoves dirty soot laden exhaust back into your engines intake and DPF(diesel particulate filter) is cleaned out by using some of your diesel fuel...wasted instead of used to actually run the engine. When I used to own a 2012 cummins pickup and I changed the oil, I always ended up with an extra liter of oil coming out...tells you just how much soot ended up suspended in the oil. Brutal systems, and I won't own another diesel until they come up with something better for emissions.
plainjaneFJC
Deplorable
That extra liter was probably fuel. I own a 2014 diesel and have owned numerous others. The egr is bad, but its kinda overstated.
Probably a combination of both fuel and soot...and diluting oil with fuel isn't ideal either IMO. I'm just suggesting people do their research about EGR and DPF systems BEFORE they buy a modern diesel and then decide if they are willing to deal with the "side effects" or annoyances of modern diesels. I've been there, got the shirt, will not go back until engineers come up with something better.
Dan Grec
Expedition Leader
That's what I've always thought too.
Maybe they'll de-tune it a little to get better mileage?
-Dan
SSF556
SE Expedition Society
You can go and thank the EPA for the current systems....trust me engine manufacturers do not like the systems either, but hey you either play by the rules or you get out...(CAT) or do not get involved (Toyota). The one benefit of the Diesel Exhaust System is that it has allowed us to significantly reduce EGR levels on the engine...in essence dirtying up the engine to be cleaned in the exhaust system. This has increased the durability of the engine. The achilles heel is the DEF system...the engines are way more reliable than previous diesel engines...turbo technology is amazing right now as well....but it is the pumps, heaters, nozzles associated with the DEF systems that cause failures.
I have been in conversations with EPA officials who are amazed that manufacturers have met the mandates...crazy right?
Just so you know...I have been in the diesel engine business for 13 years...I have owned 4 Mercedes ML350s and I also own a 2008 Jeep Grand Cherokee with a diesel V6 engine.....
DEFENDERBEAM
strategic command
I was gonna bring this up, but I didn't want to rain on the parade. haha.
Agreed. Every single north American diesel starting from about 2008 has some sort of this DPF Bull$*it. and cannot even really be modified to run bio or high sulfur type diesel. when I say Bio I mean like 99%, not a minimal B20 or something.
with that said, for whatever stupid reason, I would still try a diesel new wrangler.
Well, everyone, don't blame the engineers too much. The Feds require low sulpher, and all the other equipment to save us all from the bad ol' diesels.
And Defenderbeam, for your earlier question on how I got to drive all these export Jeeps.
I just finished 31 years with Chrysler, all at the Arizona Proving Ground. Started in 1983 and took my retirement late last year.
Understand I still can't talk about a lot of things I was involved with.
Jim
And Defenderbeam, for your earlier question on how I got to drive all these export Jeeps.
I just finished 31 years with Chrysler, all at the Arizona Proving Ground. Started in 1983 and took my retirement late last year.
Understand I still can't talk about a lot of things I was involved with.
Jim
Dan Grec
Expedition Leader
As much as the EPA's rules seem overly restrictive, everyone needs to remember what happens when you don't have them.
http://www.vox.com/2015/2/24/8094597/india-air-pollution-deaths
Do you honestly want to live somewhere without strict emissions laws?
-Dan
Jurfie
Adventurer
Of course not, but you can over regulate as well. If the emissions and crash regs, stood pat for a few years, you would be able to work on fuel efficiency more, and burning less fuel equals less pollution. By constantly changing the standards, car companies spend most of their time just trying to keep up. Let alone finding time to come up with new ways to improve things. It's the old Catch 22.
Jim
Jim
SSF556
SE Expedition Society
I agree....but the approach the EPA/CARB uses is not the most business friendly....and a lot of time there is no concern for the consequences of their actions. When your intent is to make laws so restrictive that the ultimate goal is to put diesel out of business that is not a healthy business environment....like I said above I have been in meetings with both EPA and CARB officials who are amazed that we keep meeting and exceeding to them their unattainable rules an laws....When CAT left the on road market...there was a lot of cheering within the EPA and they felt confident that the rest would follow. CARB is particularly ruthless when it comes to diesel and you really have to question their motivation.
The downside of all this technology is you are slowly killing the independent truck driver and small business owners...they simply can't afford to replace their aging equipment....a brand new bare bones Class 8 Day Cab goes for over $90,000 dollars...Sleeper Class 8 trucks over $110,000...that is one truck...a replacement engine is over $30,000...to replace an AfterTreatment Device (ATD) on a class 8 truck is over $7,000. For manufacturers to meet the GHG17 regulations that will need to incorporate Automated Manual Transmissions (AMTs)....those are great but are significantly more than a Manual Transmission...more added cost.
AMTs allow manufacturers to maximize the sweet spot of the engine...something a well trained driver can do with a Manual Transmission...unfortunately well trained drivers are aging out of the system...being replaced by people from all walks of life looking for a job....AMTs are vital for a manufacturer to meet fuel economy or GHG regulations.
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Well stated, better than I could have done. I'm not as articulate in expressing myself.
Jim
Jim
DEFENDERBEAM
strategic command
Sounds like it might have been a fun job. My uncle worked for caterpillar at their arizona proving ground.
For example: The older VW diesels got far better average mileage than the current ones.
Good job EPA and CARB.
CARB has a yearly $651.9 million dollars allotted in the california budget. It only has 1225 employee's. There's a lot more going on here than just these corrupted officials pretending they are saving our lungs.
those UREA tanks KILL me too!!!