Next generation snatch block

[MOguy]

Here is my 25.2 lb of pulley and shackles, help me shed some weight.

 

[Metcalf]

You're supposed to show me a video so I can helps see it. I have seen enough video so friction and heat is no longer a concern. What I'm concerned about with this setup is the line coming off the ring when tension is lost, that is all at this point.

I don't want Theory and I am not test anything, I want proof. I already have a solution but if the one you propose is better I would like to go with that one. I was hoping the video you plan on shooting could provide that for me.

At this point I travel with one big heavy pulley. I usually use it for change of Direction when I'm pulling somebody else out. I would love to incorporate another pulley into my system so I could use it to gain mechanical advantage. I used to do more hardcore wheeling and the vehicles I will with were similar in weight to mine, usually 4000 lb or so. Now I do more of this overlanding Type wheeling and the vehicles I travel with are much larger and heavier. I have a winch and usually am in a position to do recoveries, But the vehicles are usually larger and heavier than what I've dealt with in the past. Rigging up so I could gain mechanical advantage would be nice. if I could do this with a 1- 2 pound pulley as opposed to a 5 to 10 lb pulley that would be wonderful.

I'm working on the demo and video this weekend. You are not wrong on being concerned with the tension issue. The fix is just very easy and cheap. Stay tuned.

I do have one question. Why can't you gain mechanical advantage with the single pulley you carry now? I'm confused by that statement.

Thinking through a lot of complex rigging I have played with in years past, my magic number will be 3 rings. I can only think of one or two extrememly rare situations where I could use more than that.

 

[MOguy]

Sometimes I can work with just one pulley up for mechanical advantage.

I want to pull the stuck vehicle out as straight as possible and to my back onto the winch I straighten even as possible.sometimes this is not possible with where my vehicle will fit. Often the cable will have to be routed through a pulley anchored to a tree to get a straight pull. There are times I will have to position myself so I can anchor my Jeep to another tree because if the size of the other vehicle.

the group I run with is planing a trip mid-January and there could be some ice or snow. there could be a lot of winching and I want options.

 

[Metcalf]

Here we go, first proof of concept....



The possibility of flipping the line out of the groove is no longer a concern.


If your ring ( or traditional block ) is going through more than that during a pull, more power to you. This little device will weigh next to nothing. I am going to try a few different strap materials going forward. I used a simple double sided velcro strap on this one. The width of the block needs to be built to the width of the snatch ring. There is a small grove for each line of the soft shackle to sit in. This helps to keep things neat and organized. There is no force on the block during the pull.

 

[MOguy]

Here we go, first proof of concept....



The possibility of flipping the line out of the groove is no longer a concern.


If your ring ( or traditional block ) is going through more than that during a pull, more power to you. This little device will weigh next to nothing. I am going to try a few different strap materials going forward. I used a simple double sided velcro strap on this one. The width of the block needs to be built to the width of the snatch ring. There is a small grove for each line of the soft shackle to sit in. This helps to keep things neat and organized. There is no force on the block during the pull.

That's a copy of the Ropeye block that you posted a few post early which I said seemed interesting. I like the idea I'm just not real comfortable with the velcro and wood.

 

[Metcalf]

That's an imitation of the Popeye block that you posted a few post early which I said seemed interesting. I'm not going to trust the born a piece of velcro but with the actual Popeye block be suitable for vehicle recovery?

Ummmm, ok. Where are your ideas, concepts, and testing again?

The velcro strap does not have any load on it. It only keeps my anti-flip block in place on the soft shackle legs. As I mentioned, I wouldn't mind trying a few different strap alternatives. The velcro is so easy and adjustable I doubt I will find anything that much better.

The Rope-eye blocks I posted earlier have some of their own little issues. I played with some Kydex shapes that where similar. I like my solution better for a few reasons. I'll let other people do some testing on their dime to figure out why at this point.

 

[MOguy]

Ummmm, ok. Where are your ideas, concepts, and testing again?

The velcro strap does not have any load on it. It only keeps my anti-flip block in place on the soft shackle legs. As I mentioned, I wouldn't mind trying a few different strap alternatives. The velcro is so easy and adjustable I doubt I will find anything that much better.

The Rope-eye blocks I posted earlier have some of their own little issues. I played with some Kydex shapes that where similar. I like my solution better for a few reasons. I'll let other people do some testing on their dime to figure out why at this point.

it does look like the wood and velcro will work. Your video does do good a job showing that. It just seems odd a piece of wood in a Velcro. The ring is about $90 US which does seem like a lot for aluminum ring, but it is less expensive then the warn snatch block. it does seem like it could be a good option with the addition of the stopper you created.

The Rope eye does seem a little more acceptable as far as design but the cost is very high and doesn't seem to be strong enough for vehicle rescue.

 

[Metcalf]

it does look like the wood and velcro will work. Your video does do good a job showing that. It just seems odd a piece of wood in a Velcro. The ring is about $90 US which does seem like a lot for aluminum ring, but it is less expensive then the warn snatch block. it does seem like it could be a good option with the addition of the stopper you created.

The Rope flock does seem a little more acceptable as far as design but the cost is very high and doesn't seem to be strong enough for vehicle rescue.

I just built it as a proof of concept. There are lots of ways to make it better moving forward.

I paid $50 each for my rings delivered.

Why don't you think this is strong enough for vehicle recovery? The forces on the ring are actually pretty isolated and generally just compressive. The aluminum is VERY strong in that direction. IF you did fail the ring, it is would just start to collapse. The lines are still trapped in the system which is a large bonus over conventional options. I ran some rough FEA on the ring design in Solidworks. The 22,000 lb rating is conservative from what I noted. The chances of someone generating 20K+ of force and not ripping off the front of their frame is pretty slim.

 

[MOguy]

I just built it as a proof of concept. There are lots of ways to make it better moving forward.

I paid $50 each for my rings delivered.

Why don't you think this is strong enough for vehicle recovery? The forces on the ring are actually pretty isolated and generally just compressive. The aluminum is VERY strong in that direction. IF you did fail the ring, it is would just start to collapse. The lines are still trapped in the system which is a large bonus over conventional options. I ran some rough FEA on the ring design in Solidworks. The 22,000 lb rating is conservative from what I noted. The chances of someone generating 20K+ of force and not ripping off the front of their frame is pretty slim.

the aluminum ring we're talking about here is definitely strong enough recovery, it was the Ropeye block that I believe it's only rated up to 11,000 pounds. I suppose the ropeye would be strong enough also it just doesn't seem like it has a whole lot of margarine for the unexpected.

 

[Kruse]

You are going to see a lot of these rings offered by every hungry offroad gizmo fabricator very soon. I believe this system is stronger and safer than the traditional pulley-blocks.
One thing to look out for though is friction. If using a thicker soft-shackle, the area load in the shackle can be reduced and friction minimized.
Also, bare Dynema may be the slickest without chafing guards and coatings on the soft-shackle.
As to the problem of securing the winch-line inside the groove:
How about a "U"-shaped peace of plastic, inserted and tied to the soft-shackle "legs". Very light weight.
This peace of plastic "sadle" would only have to be strong enough to hold the light winch-line in place.
Now we are just waiting for the hype to settle down and the prices should plummet.

 

[MOguy]

You are going to see a lot of these rings offered by every hungry offroad gizmo fabricator very soon. I believe this system is stronger and safer than the traditional pulley-blocks.
One thing to look out for though is friction. If using a thicker soft-shackle, the area load in the shackle can be reduced and friction minimized.
Also, bare Dynema may be the slickest without chafing guards and coatings on the soft-shackle.
As to the problem of securing the winch-line inside the groove:
How about a "U"-shaped peace of plastic, inserted and tied to the soft-shackle "legs". Very light weight.
This peace of plastic "sadle" would only have to be strong enough to hold the light winch-line in place.
Now we are just waiting for the hype to settle down and the prices should plummet.

I am just not sure if I would "every hungry offroad gizmo fabricator" when it comes to something like this.

 

[Low_Sky]

I am just not sure if I would "every hungry offroad gizmo fabricator" when it comes to something like this.

When/if these catch on (and I think they will), the no-name Chinese off-road gear houses that sell through eBay and Amazon won’t be far behind.

Have you seen the options out there for cheap China-made synthetic winch ropes and soft shackles these days? Endless. Wasn’t that long ago that synthetic winch rope was the new product on the market that nobody trusted.


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[DaveInDenver]

I would probably trust a knock off hunk of aluminum, what you see is what you get. You can see the machining quality and if it fatigues or develops stress fractures you have a fair chance of knowing it. There's not even any junk bearings you worry about. Fake Dyneema or a low quality winch is harder to know what latent failure is lurking to be inconvenient or dangerous.

 

[Smileyshaun]

on a knock off I would be worried about the quality of metal casting, the type of aluminum used and machining process. if any one of those are lacking it could turn out to be a bad day . It's recovery gear , buy once cry once .

 

[DaveInDenver]

on a knock off I would be worried about the quality of metal casting, the type of aluminum used and machining process. if any one of those are lacking it could turn out to be a bad day . It's recovery gear , buy once cry once .

If it's cast then, yeah, no way. Same with knock off shackles or anything recovery. Forged or machined from billet only for these things. But that's what I mean, it's hard to conceal if all it is a single piece of material. Sacrifice one to a band saw and you'll know everything you'd ever need to. The alloy or any heat treating is harder to determine but in this case those things are less critical to the safety of it. I doubt the "good" manufacturers are doing anything more than programming a CNC and running a block of 7075, anodizing and calling it good.