After driving my 80 (lifted, armored, stock geared with 35's), my (stock) 120 ('97 GX470) feels like a sports car. 0-60 in half the time, an absolutely INCREDIBLE suspension (KDSS is epic)...but nowhere near the offroad ability of solid front axle, lockers, 35's, etc. I generally prefer longer expedition trips over hardcore wheeling, so I've decided to stick with the 120.
Not enjoying my 80-Series; did I make the wrong choice?
- Thread starter MikesVX80
- Start date
After driving my 80 (lifted, armored, stock geared with 35's), my (stock) 120 ('97 GX470) feels like a sports car. 0-60 in half the time, an absolutely INCREDIBLE suspension (KDSS is epic)...but nowhere near the offroad ability of solid front axle, lockers, 35's, etc. I generally prefer longer expedition trips over hardcore wheeling, so I've decided to stick with the 120.
Douglas S.
Adventurer
I have a 1991 HDJ81 much like yours, my dad has a 1994 Range Rover Classic with a 5.0 TVR V8. Both vehicles are in excellent mechanical condition.
The RR is the better truck to drive in all situations, no doubt about it. The suspension is better, the trans is better, and it has significantly more power. With that said for long range travel I would take my Land Cruiser every single time. The diesel engine sips fuel off road, and my truck has been incredibly reliable which certainly cannot be said about the RR. The RR is an excellent design, implemented poorly (IMO). The cruiser is a good design, implemented excellently. Just my personal opinion.
The RR is the better truck to drive in all situations, no doubt about it. The suspension is better, the trans is better, and it has significantly more power. With that said for long range travel I would take my Land Cruiser every single time. The diesel engine sips fuel off road, and my truck has been incredibly reliable which certainly cannot be said about the RR. The RR is an excellent design, implemented poorly (IMO). The cruiser is a good design, implemented excellently. Just my personal opinion.
Clutch
<---Pass
The OP should at least go test drive one...he might become a believer.
Well, some good news; I finally got back to the car this weekend (been away with work) and checked the tyre pressures, sure enough a whopping 40psi all round! So dropped those to 30psi all round (BFG A/T's in a 285/75/16 fitment) and the car rides much better already. Not LR/RR good, but better.
Also had the front wheels rebalanced and that has helped with some of the shake from the front end. Still got plenty to do to get it driving how I want, but it's heading in the right direction!
Also had the front wheels rebalanced and that has helped with some of the shake from the front end. Still got plenty to do to get it driving how I want, but it's heading in the right direction!
kletzenklueffer
Adventurer
On my 80 I had terrible death wobble. The whole truck would shake enough that you expected to see parts flying off of it. I rebuilt the front end, replaced all the tie rod ends, and that fixed about 80% of it, but it still had some shaking. Finally, the BFG AT's (315/75/16) wore enough to replace. Once replaced, the shaking ended. I think that the real issue was the tires, even though I'd had them balanced prior to replacing. I think that the tires caused other steering/suspension issues. I won't do BFG's again.
Sempertoy
Explorer
I am experiencing this same thing. I have been chasing the death wobble for a couple years now. I get to the point where I seem to minimize it, but I think new tires are the only thing that will cure my case.
calicamper
Expedition Leader
I had 285's on mine BFG's were fine no issue great tire. If the tire is older than 7yrs the rubber compound will be really stiff and hard. Rubber continues to cure so by 7yrs the tires are more like bricks and will ride and drive like garbage. Empty I ran around 30psi with passengers and packed weight I found it needed to be in the 32-35psi range or it would get unstable at speed little tail wag vs short wheel base and soft tires etc.
Heavily built tires that are old will no doubt ride like complete garbage and also not be that great for steering feedback if the tires have sat for long periods of time with flat spots etc. As for tire brand the BFG Brand has been some of the best truck tires out there for a really long time.
johanso
Adventurer
If it was me I would start looking into if there is something wrong. Bad shocks, if the wheel alignment is off, bad bushings or the tyres as mentioned above. If everything is OK you need to think about if this is the right vehicle for you and if you should invest more money in it. I mean even with nicer suspension set up and some more power it's still a 20 year old, straight axle, body on frame truck and will act accordingly and will never become a LR3. For good and bad.
The 12-valve can easily be turned up for some more power. Add an intercooler, a free flowing 3 inch exhaust from the turbo and tweak the pump for more fuel. Add boost and egt gauges to keep an eye on things. The sound with the new exhaust alone will make you fall in love with the truck
The 12-valve can easily be turned up for some more power. Add an intercooler, a free flowing 3 inch exhaust from the turbo and tweak the pump for more fuel. Add boost and egt gauges to keep an eye on things. The sound with the new exhaust alone will make you fall in love with the truck
Johan - I agree. I am taking it to Overland Cruisers this week for tweaks to the fuel pump, and it already has a stainless steel exhaust fitted. Will also investigate any worn bushes and replace if necessary.
If that makes a significant improvement then I will keep it and carry on, if not then I think I will put it up for sale as for the right person it would make a fantastic base vehicle, but it might not be right for me. If that is the case I will probably pick up a diesel LR3/4 Commercial and kit that out instead...
If that makes a significant improvement then I will keep it and carry on, if not then I think I will put it up for sale as for the right person it would make a fantastic base vehicle, but it might not be right for me. If that is the case I will probably pick up a diesel LR3/4 Commercial and kit that out instead...
UK4X4
Expedition Leader
"diesel LR3/4 Commercial "
remember to buy your diagnostic computer to bring with you....
same platform as the RR sport..........and its mirriad of sparkly dash lights codes and electrical gremlins....
add some foam to the seat in the LC
Take a look at one continent, have a serious breakdown....53 locations for Toyota.....and 11 for landrover...You could probably take any country on the planet and see the same type of proliferation and service availability for Toyo- V's the shiny LR salesrooms only in major capitals...
http://www.toyota-global.com/compan...ive_business/sales/activity/africa/index.html
http://www.landrover-africa.com/country-locator
In colombia as another example....1 for LR in Bogota.....for toyota they have 49 concesionarios, 44 talleres y 46 puntos de repuestos a nivel nacional ---thats 49 dealers,44 workshops and 46 spares sales points and thats just the official outlets.
break down in cartagena with ABS or suspension problems and you have a 3day drive to the BOG sat on your bump stops or with little breaking control over the andes mountain range
remember to buy your diagnostic computer to bring with you....
same platform as the RR sport..........and its mirriad of sparkly dash lights codes and electrical gremlins....
add some foam to the seat in the LC
Take a look at one continent, have a serious breakdown....53 locations for Toyota.....and 11 for landrover...You could probably take any country on the planet and see the same type of proliferation and service availability for Toyo- V's the shiny LR salesrooms only in major capitals...
http://www.toyota-global.com/compan...ive_business/sales/activity/africa/index.html
http://www.landrover-africa.com/country-locator
In colombia as another example....1 for LR in Bogota.....for toyota they have 49 concesionarios, 44 talleres y 46 puntos de repuestos a nivel nacional ---thats 49 dealers,44 workshops and 46 spares sales points and thats just the official outlets.
break down in cartagena with ABS or suspension problems and you have a 3day drive to the BOG sat on your bump stops or with little breaking control over the andes mountain range
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Hi UK4x4,
You undoubtedly make a very good point, and to be fair it is one I am aware of (I have taken a RR Sport on expedition previously, see this thread: http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/threads/136323-1993-Landcruiser-80-expedition-build-(UK)-with-pics).
No doubt we would need to modify our route somewhat, but it is still an option at the moment...
You undoubtedly make a very good point, and to be fair it is one I am aware of (I have taken a RR Sport on expedition previously, see this thread: http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/threads/136323-1993-Landcruiser-80-expedition-build-(UK)-with-pics).
No doubt we would need to modify our route somewhat, but it is still an option at the moment...
RMP&O
Expedition Leader
Size of the exhaust matters. Not just if it is SS. Also how it is routed and installed. If it has restrictions, that will limit it. One thing to remember about a diesel is it likes to breath. The more air coming in and the free flowing of exhaust going out give big improvements. A better turbo also gives great results and basically will determine how the engine runs in terms of power. IE, when does it boost and when does boost taper off. More fuel is good but if you just give it more fuel it often makes it run hot and creates more soot out the tailpipe. It is all a balance really of these things. An intercooler is also very good for a TD. It does great to help keep the EGTs down. It also makes for a cleaner bigger explosion. There is other mods you can do too like water injection but these are the basics to get dialed in if you want the TD to be just right.
The great thing about a diesel is it is much lower maintenance. It is also a very simple motor, it only needs compression, fuel and air to run. Modern diesels are more complex with a computer, ect ect but still more basic that a gas engine. Fuel economy is also usually better. Many guys here in the states would kill to have your TD 80-series.
Caster has a lot to do with how the steering feels. If it is out, even by just 3-5* it will feel sloppy in the steering. It will wander and drift and not be responsive. When I got my truck it had a big drop bracket on the radius arms up front to correct caster. I lifted the front end 2" and removed these drop brackets. My caster was then out by 9*. The truck drove awful, sketchy even down the hwy. I fixed the caster, getting it even a touch beyond factory specs since I have 35" tires. I put in a custom built steering set up, all new parts. Now it drives like a brand new truck and I can 2-finger it down the hwy at 80mph. I wouldn't even do 80mph in it before this as it was just to sketchy. So while yes you need bushings, tres and so forth to all be in good condition and not worn out, there is more at play if the truck is not stock.
I am a fan of a coil sprung solid front axle truck. It is simple, stout and coil springs are cheap. It is also easy to work on. New coil springs and shocks is cheapest in this kind of truck. With IFS, nice c/o's are not cheap. Leaf springs also cost more than coils to upgrade. Nice leaf springs can run $1000 per axle. C/O's can run upwards of $2,000 per axle. Top of the line coil springs, $250 per axle.
Cheers
REDrum
Aventurero de la Selva
To many on Expo, (too many), the answer to what truck to "overland" in always ends up a toss between a LC80 or a Defender. As an owner of two FZJ80 I do not agree that the 80 is a silver bullet. I think there are many short comings in its design and now that trucks are pretty long in the tooth, major and costly repair/overhaul cycles. The IFS in a USDM UZJ100 is an Achilles heal but otherwise it is a superior truck to the 80. My 1999 is the best truck I've ever owned, simply phenomenal. My 1994 LC 80 has spent most of its life in Central America and it never stops impressing me how durable it is. I'd drive it anywhere on earth tomorrow. A same year Defender well, might drive to the shopping mall but only with a full tool kit and lots of spares.
Don't give up on your 80, but you are not off base with your findings. If you do lift your 80 be sure and add proper castor and camber correction plates and get a good alignment--that will definitely improve handling. My '94 80 is lift 3" and running 255/85/16s. For alignment I have -2 camber up front, zero camber in rear, and zero toe all around. It handles very well on gravel, very predictable. Like my old rally car, just a little top heavy. I have spent a bit of time in Patrols and been impressed. My sense is that its spec'd between the LC 80 and 100. Might want to look into that platform a bit.
Don't give up on your 80, but you are not off base with your findings. If you do lift your 80 be sure and add proper castor and camber correction plates and get a good alignment--that will definitely improve handling. My '94 80 is lift 3" and running 255/85/16s. For alignment I have -2 camber up front, zero camber in rear, and zero toe all around. It handles very well on gravel, very predictable. Like my old rally car, just a little top heavy. I have spent a bit of time in Patrols and been impressed. My sense is that its spec'd between the LC 80 and 100. Might want to look into that platform a bit.