Not So Subtle E350 Shuttle - 100% Satisfaction Guaranteed
- Thread starter sakurama
- Start date
ambulancemonkee
Observer
All of my experience is with IFS. However, watching the video at a slower speed, it appears that the track bar itself is flexing. Also, would reinforcing the radius arms or their mounting points help? Perhaps your hubs and/or ball joints also have excess play due to the severity of the wobble with the original setup?
Pinnacle Campers
Chateau spotter
Thanks for posting Gregor, super frustrating I'm sure.
I don't think the frame flexing, shaking all over is causing the wobble it's a result. The tires start wobbling back and forth long before the oscillations get to the mounts and frame. Sure, that stuff needs to be stronger to take the violent oscillations of weight but I think those oscillations start from something independent.
Nothing is mentioned about the brake pads (you did say it starts right after hitting the brakes, I had to replace 1 caliper in the front and I used the new pads in it, old in the other, and it has pulled a little that way ever since)) or alignment settings toe in/out could be adjusted either way easily to test.
It's my theory that it is an outlying issue, all the bracketry, axle, frame, is all the same van to van.
Best of luck, I will be following along, hopefully something gets figured out, lot of these coil kits on the road.
I don't think the frame flexing, shaking all over is causing the wobble it's a result. The tires start wobbling back and forth long before the oscillations get to the mounts and frame. Sure, that stuff needs to be stronger to take the violent oscillations of weight but I think those oscillations start from something independent.
Nothing is mentioned about the brake pads (you did say it starts right after hitting the brakes, I had to replace 1 caliper in the front and I used the new pads in it, old in the other, and it has pulled a little that way ever since)) or alignment settings toe in/out could be adjusted either way easily to test.
It's my theory that it is an outlying issue, all the bracketry, axle, frame, is all the same van to van.
Best of luck, I will be following along, hopefully something gets figured out, lot of these coil kits on the road.
cjken
Explorer
Why does the Quigley design not suffer this as severely? I’ve had 2 and put plenty of miles on both. Only time I got mild wobble was when front end components were severely warn.
I’ve run every thing from stock tires up to 37’s.
As much as people talk down about Q-vans, I at least feel safe on the road.
For all it’s potential compromise it has been a trustworthy design. If properly maintained they preform well.
MG has built some great looking stuff and done some ambitious projects.
The Coil kit had me really interested, you could say I was MG curious. I think I held off due to so few being out in the wild experiencing real world driving conditions. It goes to show that even with all our human knowledge, CAD, computer simulations, and Skills suspensions are difficult. There are so many variables, some of which either don’t get considered or have complex inter-play that cannot be easily modeled.
I really hope that it gets worked out for you.
I’m glad that you posted it. Holding it back serves no purpose. Having it out there adds to the collective knowledge and can help everyone learn, improve, and hopefully have safe travels.
I’m very interested to see what solutions arise.
Best of luck.
I’ve run every thing from stock tires up to 37’s.
As much as people talk down about Q-vans, I at least feel safe on the road.
For all it’s potential compromise it has been a trustworthy design. If properly maintained they preform well.
MG has built some great looking stuff and done some ambitious projects.
The Coil kit had me really interested, you could say I was MG curious. I think I held off due to so few being out in the wild experiencing real world driving conditions. It goes to show that even with all our human knowledge, CAD, computer simulations, and Skills suspensions are difficult. There are so many variables, some of which either don’t get considered or have complex inter-play that cannot be easily modeled.
I really hope that it gets worked out for you.
I’m glad that you posted it. Holding it back serves no purpose. Having it out there adds to the collective knowledge and can help everyone learn, improve, and hopefully have safe travels.
I’m very interested to see what solutions arise.
Best of luck.
java
Expedition Leader
Damn Gergor, that is crazy to watch on video. I will say your mentioning of down hill and braking makes me think its bump steer induced. Loading up the front suspension causes something to create a steering movement, its then exaggerated side to side. Look at how much the engine block is moving though!
Have you had an alignment done on this? I am no 4x4 expert. I'm just curious what your caster and toe numbers are. If you have very little caster it would make the wheel not want to self straighten and could cause a flutter that then goes into a bump steer scenario where each swap induces another bump steer.
Bikersmurf
Expedition Leader
X1000 MG won’t be seeing my buisness for anything if he won’t help solve the issue.
In land cruisers wobble is usually caused by unwanted play/flex, not enough castor, unbalanced tires, or a combination of the above.
Tires didn’t change anything... Ujoint has done some to change alignment (don’t know if successful) for others with similar problems, play/flex?
Hope you get it sorted out!
Bikersmurf
Expedition Leader
Cudos to Chris for helping to solve a problem that he didn’t create. We need more vendors who will step up and help.
watson.robin
New member
I was starting to get all gung-ho to begin collecting parts for my own 7.3 conversion.
I'd been mailing Chris (again thanks for all your advice) and MG. I've followed this thread since August 17' and was coming back an re-reading everything again this week.
Being in Portland I was trying to figure what parts in your van were Ujoint and what was from MG. Michael also told me just yesterday that he's no longer working on E van 4x4 conversions.
Man this has taken the wind out of my sails.
I really hope you can get this figured out Gregor.
.....waiting with baited breath.
I'd been mailing Chris (again thanks for all your advice) and MG. I've followed this thread since August 17' and was coming back an re-reading everything again this week.
Being in Portland I was trying to figure what parts in your van were Ujoint and what was from MG. Michael also told me just yesterday that he's no longer working on E van 4x4 conversions.
Man this has taken the wind out of my sails.
I really hope you can get this figured out Gregor.
.....waiting with baited breath.
Raul
Adventurer
This is quite unfortunate. Thanks for taking the time posting the video and for bringing this issue.
I had DW and thought it was due to a defective Fox shock absorber. Once replaced, it went away... few month forward I decided to replace the 880S springs (too stiff for the 5.4) with 880. The ride improved, but running over a railroad track crossing by my home the Death Wobble came back. I've revised every nut and everything is tight.
This was not a cheap kit. You can get a lift kit for an F350 with drop bracket, new track bar bracket and shocks for 1/4 of the price of just the brackets. I understand vans are a niche market so I went with this kit to save headaches. In my case you can still question my craftsmanship as I did the install. In your case you went to the source to have it installed and still have all these issues. The response is unacceptable and you were very nice trying to work with him without compromising his reputation.
I had DW and thought it was due to a defective Fox shock absorber. Once replaced, it went away... few month forward I decided to replace the 880S springs (too stiff for the 5.4) with 880. The ride improved, but running over a railroad track crossing by my home the Death Wobble came back. I've revised every nut and everything is tight.
This was not a cheap kit. You can get a lift kit for an F350 with drop bracket, new track bar bracket and shocks for 1/4 of the price of just the brackets. I understand vans are a niche market so I went with this kit to save headaches. In my case you can still question my craftsmanship as I did the install. In your case you went to the source to have it installed and still have all these issues. The response is unacceptable and you were very nice trying to work with him without compromising his reputation.
sakurama
Adventurer
First of all thanks for the support and all the PM's - I will try to respond to everyone.
Second, I appreciate the help that MG gave me and I wish him well. As I pointed out to him a few months ago, no one wins a fight on the internet.
I started this thread and all my build threads to share my knowledge, my experiences and the solutions I find along the way because shared knowledge is greater and helps us move forward. I am going to be moving forward and I appreciate Chris reaching out to me and I look forward to putting this part of the build behind me and moving on to the next parts.
Thanks again. I will post my progress as I make it. And, as some of you have noted, I should probably change my thread title...
Gregor
Second, I appreciate the help that MG gave me and I wish him well. As I pointed out to him a few months ago, no one wins a fight on the internet.
I started this thread and all my build threads to share my knowledge, my experiences and the solutions I find along the way because shared knowledge is greater and helps us move forward. I am going to be moving forward and I appreciate Chris reaching out to me and I look forward to putting this part of the build behind me and moving on to the next parts.
Thanks again. I will post my progress as I make it. And, as some of you have noted, I should probably change my thread title...
Gregor
cjken
Explorer
Great response and attitude Gregor!!
I would have a hard time being as gracious.
I would think MG would want to solve the problem. Most engineers that I know love problem solving and don’t rest until they find a solution or at the very least an answer.
I can respect his business decision to go full bore on the Transit, but it seems like he is leaving the E350 “project” incomplete and unsolved in a sense.
I guess it is good for the community that Chris, Agile, Quigley, and others have viable solutions for the platform.
I would have a hard time being as gracious.
I would think MG would want to solve the problem. Most engineers that I know love problem solving and don’t rest until they find a solution or at the very least an answer.
I can respect his business decision to go full bore on the Transit, but it seems like he is leaving the E350 “project” incomplete and unsolved in a sense.
I guess it is good for the community that Chris, Agile, Quigley, and others have viable solutions for the platform.
mk216v
Der Chef der Fahrzeuge
Sorry to hear of your DW Gregor. Very helpful videos to see what's happening when.
I'm really surprised no one is paying attention to the detail shown in the videos. Look at the draglink/pitman arm end at ~3seconds in the first video, and ~21.5seconds in the second video.
It's very obvious to my eyes that the "nub" there starts moving/shaking much much before anything else (radiator hose/engine, trac bar/mount, tires, etc) start moving/shaking.
From what I'm seeing here, I believe you should have a professional third party shop look at the steering box play.
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