Odyssey vs. Diehard Platinum

[teotwaki]

I spoke of it because I was planning to buy one. Still never have gotten around to it though, so I would appreciate any real-world review of it that you can provide.

Not recommended?

Hey there! I need to figure out how best to run some tests to get a handle on what I think that I am seeing. What I have seen is that it rarely runs more than 5 amps into any battery no matter what I think the state of charge may be. After a short while it drops down to an amp or so from what I see on the meter. Maybe it is smarter than me, LOL. We could always start a separate thread and concoct some tests for me to try with batteries in various states of charge.

 

[remote camper]

...dual bank Powermania Turbo M Series battery charger, one of the "approved/recommended" battery chargers from Odyssey...

Just took a look at that M series. The only one that would seem to meet my needs for charging current for deep cycling starts with the M230 V2 (available in 2015?). Took a look at the manual and noticed it has AGM and AGM+ settings. AGM+ boosts the absorption voltage from 14.5 to 14.7 for Odysseys and Optimas. There's that 14.7 volts again!!

 

[spressomon]

^ FWIW: My Scangauge shows a typical max of 14.2 volts output from my OEM 100amp alternator/rectifier/regulator system. Apart of another project all of the HO alternator shops I've spoken to state, for Odyssey and/or similar AGM style batteries, output should be capable of outputting 14.5-14.7v and that's how they set them up (with and from experience they say...).

Having said that I've been out on the road and trail for weeks on end without the Powermania and have never had an issue with the charge on either battery. Of course this is all anecdotal and without specific voltage measurement data...

 

[remote camper]

Hey there! I need to figure out how best to run some tests to get a handle on what I think that I am seeing. What I have seen is that it rarely runs more than 5 amps into any battery no matter what I think the state of charge may be. After a short while it drops down to an amp or so from what I see on the meter. Maybe it is smarter than me, LOL. We could always start a separate thread and concoct some tests for me to try with batteries in various states of charge.

There's no need to reinvent the wheel here. Tests are described in the Odyssey Technical Manual. It also includes a chart on how to determine State of Charge (SOC). I wouldn't draw yours down so much for the test, though. You should be able to see the difference in charging current needed starting with 12.6 volts resting voltage and 12.7 volts or even between 12.7 and 12.84, for that matter. While the chart shows only 4 voltages, it can be interpolated reasonably well even though the voltage/SOC relationship isn't EXACTLY linear. There are formulas online that can help you do that, if needed. All you have to do is plug in the values. Just worked with them this morning. There is even an app for that! I would choose the one that requires the least amount of permissions to run (preferable none).

As you approach full charge, current could drop to <100 ma. On the surface it sounds like there's no issue with yours. Current ramps down as it charges. If you have a charger that is capable of the 14.7 absorption/13.6 float stages, you should see a transition from absorption (14.7v) to float (13.6v). That's a sign that things are in good shape. It's also a test that probably takes the least amount of effort. Even if you don't have such a charger, a healthy battery is going to draw only what it needs and should follow the mfr's charge profile. You should see the charging current approaching 100 ma for a full charge. That can take some time. That's a somewhat generalized statement(s) and I don't want to get into a knit-picking contest with anybody about that!

If you don't have the OM and TMs yet, those are references you should be using. If it seems like too much to digest, just put it down and keep picking it up until it (the parts you need) starts to sink in. That's how I did it. Even then, I still get some things wrong and have to keep going back to them. You and your trips are worth the effort!

 

[remote camper]

^ FWIW: My Scangauge shows a typical max of 14.2 volts output from my OEM 100amp alternator/rectifier/regulator system. Apart of another project all of the HO alternator shops I've spoken to state, for Odyssey and/or similar AGM style batteries, output should be capable of outputting 14.5-14.7v and that's how they set them up (with and from experience they say...).

Having said that I've been out on the road and trail for weeks on end without the Powermania and have never had an issue with the charge on either battery. Of course this is all anecdotal and without specific voltage measurement data...

The Platinums don't die right away because they don't get their ration of current/voltage on a few trips unless they are really abused. In fact, as I read the Odyssey materials, these batteries can take quite a bit as long as you feed them properly. So, if you are not able to do that on an outing or several, you need to be watching the resting voltage and use that data to feed them properly when you get back. That normally requires an investment in an approved charger as a minimum and a few seconds with a voltmeter to monitor the patient to see what's needed. As the manual states you have some latitude in charging within the range of a vehicle's charging system. You probably don't eat as well on these outings as you do when you are home, either. Think about feeding the batteries what they need when you get back, too. There is a wide range of Powermanias and I don't know how you use your batteries. It makes a difference.

 

[BigSwede]

Does my 14 hour drive to Denver each May (on the way to Moab) do the trick?

 

[remote camper]

Does my 14 hour drive to Denver each May (on the way to Moab) do the trick?

Depends on what you did with them on the way, in Moab, and what went on between June and April. At any rate, sounds like you are a candidate for the Odyssey materials, too!

 

[BigSwede]

I would think 14 hours of alternator charging might get close to 100%...

 

[remote camper]

I would think 14 hours of alternator charging might get close to 100%...

Under certain circumstances, I would think so, too. It doesn't have to be a guess. You can pretty much tell by six hours resting time after one of your 14 hour runs. Disconnect the [-] lead to remove all loads--no charge, no load, wait six hours-- no cheating!);; apply a good voltmeter and you will have a good idea. If that resting reading is less than 12.84 volts, your alternator is likely not enough (or the batts are just reaching the end of a hopefully long and useful life). Even at 12.84 volts, if they don't seem to do the work they previously did, then you might want to look a load testing. At <12.84 volts resting, the proper charger might recover them, might not. It just depends on a few things that are covered in the tech manual that is available to you that I'm not going to go into anymore.

I don't want to wait for an outcome based on something I strongly suspect won't work for the long term. I just feed them properly now. If you're getting 4 years or more out of them though, maybe you should be happy. I'm not the one who decides how long they should last for you. You can't make them not fail. They are going to wear out. The question is when.

We won't know until we have a chance to compare results after 6-8 years. That's how long I expect mine to last. I have about 5 years to go for 8 years. By then the next latest and greatest battery technology will likely be the rage (Tesla?) and this won't matter anymore. In the meantime, the last thing I want is my words ringing in your ears if they fail when you needed them most and it didn't have to be that way.

If you have questions about what's in the pubs, I can try to help. If I don't know the answer; somebody else here might. Odyssey will likely always have the best answer. I really have to leave the topic now, as I've probably contributed all I can.

Even if you abhor tech manuals and owner's guides, try the test, track the results and do what you think is right from there...and above all--happy and safe Moabing!

PS- sorry I forgot, you don't have to test ONLY after a 14 hour run. But the test will tell you what a 14 hour run did for you. If your batteries have "recovered" from the Moab since last May and any other unusual load activity since then, a 1 hour run should be enough. Under any resting scenario, you're looking for a min of 12.84 volts (for a state of charge of 100%).

 

[dwh]

There's no need to reinvent the wheel here. Tests are described in the Odyssey Technical Manual....[snip]

Actually, he was talking about testing that Samlex charger, rather than testing batteries.


teo,

Yea, another thread would be better. Start one and do a review then I'll jump in and get all nit-picky and tech on your ***.

Seriously though, IIRC there are dip switches, and one of them puts that charger into what they call "UPS Mode", which is actually just constant voltage mode at float voltage (13.6v IIRC). In other words, just a plain ol' regulated power supply. I could see if it was set like that, then it wouldn't (couldn't) be aggressive on the amps because it would never operate in constant current mode.

 

[remote camper]

Actually, he was talking about testing that Samlex charger, rather than testing batteries.

...and so that's the way it reads! The Samlex is a nice unit. Just took a look at the manual. Can be set for bulk, absorption and float. The only thing I have to offer here is to be mindful that Odyssey recommends a .4 x C10 rate for recharging batteries that are deep cycled. The 1215 is too light for anything much above a C10 of 37.5 ah. For the PC-1750 with a C10 of 65 ah, that computes to 26 amps, but they go with 25 amps as a min. So, there might be a little latitude there. For me it's the 1230.

 

[remote camper]

...The Samlex is a nice unit. Just took a look at the manual. Can be set for bulk, absorption and float...

But I didn't look close enough. I didn't see any temperature compensation, absorption voltage factory set @ 14.4 volts (too close to Odysseys low end), and float only 13.5 volts. Crossed it off of my list for the Odyssey/Platinums.

 

[teotwaki]

----------Can be set for bulk, absorption and float. --------.

Nope.

Three modes can be set by the dip switches:

1. flooded/agm 3 stage charging 14.4V boost
2. Gel Cell 3 stage charging 14.0v boost
3. Battery with Load/UPS mode 13.5 volts

 

[remote camper]

Nope.

Three modes can be set by the dip switches:

1. flooded/agm 3 stage charging 14.4V boost
2. Gel Cell 3 stage charging 14.0v boost
3. Battery with Load/UPS mode 13.5 volts

Page 8 of the manual for:

MODELS:
SEC-1215UL
SEC-1230UL
SEC-2415UL

describes Stages 1,2 and 3. You might know them as something different (as Samlex uses the terms you mention), but in the battery charging world they are commonly understood as bulk (constant current), absorption (constant voltage) and float (maintenance) and are also referred to as such in the manual.

 

[dwh]

Nah, teotwaki's been around. He knows the difference between charging stages and operating modes. Modes 1 and 2 on the Samlex are both 3-stage operating modes, while Mode 3 is just a constant voltage regulated power supply.

I was suggesting that maybe the charger is stuck in mode 3 for some reason. Of course, if he ever sees it hit bulk or absorb voltage, that would rule that out.