Odyssey vs. Diehard Platinum

[teotwaki]

Page 8 of the manual for:

MODELS:
SEC-1215UL
SEC-1230UL
SEC-2415UL

describes Stages 1,2 and 3. You might know them as something different (as Samlex uses the terms you mention), but in the battery charging world they are commonly understood as bulk (constant current), absorption (constant voltage) and float (maintenance) and are also referred to as such in the manual.

I actually have the 1215UL charger and a hard copy of the manual that I read as opposed to hurriedly reading one page on-line.

Page 8 is talking about what the charger will do when you select the mode with the dip switches as described on Page 11 and referred to on Page 8 in the text between "Note 2" and the description of "Stage 1".

There are 2 dip switches and only three selections allowed (read page 11), 2 for the type of battery and one for a UPS/power supply mode (read page 7). So no matter what "battery world" someone is in they only get those 3 choices and not the ability to choose "bulk, absorption and float" as was erroneously claimed.

...----------snip--------- Can be set for bulk, absorption and float. --------------snip-------------

Page 11 also notes that all voltages are for an ambient temperature of 80 degrees F, or in the manual's French version 27 degrees C.

The temperature in my garage is 68.9 F and the charger was applying 13.72 VDC to my Diehard Platinum at that moment that I measured. This is many hours after it was first attached to the battery.

 

[teotwaki]

Nah, teotwaki's been around. He knows the difference between charging stages and operating modes. Modes 1 and 2 on the Samlex are both 3-stage operating modes, while Mode 3 is just a constant voltage regulated power supply.

I was suggesting that maybe the charger is stuck in mode 3 for some reason. Of course, if he ever sees it hit bulk or absorb voltage, that would rule that out.

Once the dip switches are set it would be very difficult to accidentally flip one of them because of the way they are mounted.

 

[remote camper]

There are 2 dip switches and only three selections allowed (read page 11), 2 for the type of battery and one for a UPS/power supply mode (read page 7). So no matter what "battery world" someone is in they only get those 3 choices and not the ability to choose "bulk, absorption and float" as was erroneously claimed. Page 11 also notes that all voltages are for an ambient temperature of 80 degrees F, or in the manual's French version 27 degrees C.

The temperature in my garage is 68.9 F and the charger was applying 13.72 VDC to my Diehard Platinum at that moment that I measured. This is many hours after it was first attached to the battery.

It's correct that someone doesn't get to choose between 3 battery charging stages independently. I can see where what I wrote could read that way. What I was commenting on for the Samlex in general as something suitable for the Platinums, was that it operates in those 3 stages (while not saying in two of the Modes), not meaning the stages can be chosen separately or independent of each other! All of that said, the 1215 has it's limitations as previously mentioned.

While we're dwelling on on what's going on between "modes" and "stages", for the record as I read the manual on page 11, in Mode 3, the Samlex operates in TWO battery charging stages (1 and 3) and skips boost as opposed to "just a constant voltage regulated power supply" as dwh incorrectly states. If being a critic is more important that being a participant, maybe I can get some credit for that? 【・_・?】ゞ

But let's move on to the 13.72 volts @ 68.9 F you are observing-- With temperature compensated battery chargers, voltage is boosted at temps below 77-80 F and I'm wondering if that's what you might be seeing. The Samlex's rated output is 13.5 @ 80 F in float (which operates in ALL modes?) For a nominal 13.6 volt float for the Platinum and a temp correction of +.125 v for temp (= 13.725 volts), it would seem you are right on. I didn't see that the Samlex is temp compensated, but maybe it is or maybe it's just more luck than design.

 

[dwh]

While we're dwelling on on what's going on between "modes" and "stages", for the record as I read the manual on page 11, in Mode 3, the Samlex operates in TWO battery charging stages (1 and 3) and skips boost as opposed to "just a constant voltage regulated power supply" as dwh incorrectly states. If being a critic is more important that being a participant, maybe I can get some credit for that? 【・_・?】ゞ

Ahh. Good point. I do recall that, though it's been quite a while since I looked at the manual for that unit.



So in UPS mode, it does constant current bulk and then constant voltage float, skipping the absorb stage. Typical "2-stage" behavior. Iota (without IQ/4 module) does the same thing.

Though Iota actually calls a spade a spade:

"As a power supply, the unit's tightly controlled regulation allows the user to operate a nominal 12VDC load up to 15 amps.

As a battery charger, the unit will maintain the battery, delivering its full-rated current when the battery capacity falls sufficiently low. The voltage is set to deliver its maximum current for the necessary period of time to minimize undue stress to the battery caused by heating of its cells. This helps to ensure the longest possible life of the battery. Over time, as the battery nears its full capacity, the DLS-15 will automatically drop the current, providing a float-charge to the battery to prevent self-discharge of the cells." [emphasis in original - dwh]

http://www.iotaengineering.com/dls15.htm


But of course...a charger like that is only going to constant current "bulk" up to the float voltage and then switch to constant voltage to just hold the regulated voltage. So I suppose I should re-phrase. How about: "A regulated power supply, with a quick ramp up to the regulated voltage."

 

[dwh]

Dammit. Now you've made me actually go and look at that manual again...

Turns out that the manual actually does say "power supply". Page 14, under the heading "Powering other DC loads".

http://www.samlexamerica.com/documents/manuals/11001-SEC-1215-1230-2415UL-0512-Lrez.pdf



Not surprising really...since the PS in UPS stands for power supply...

 

[teotwaki]

It's correct that someone doesn't get to choose between 3 battery charging stages independently. I can see where what I wrote could read that way. What I was commenting on for the Samlex in general as something suitable for the Platinums, was that it operates in those 3 stages (while not saying in two of the Modes), not meaning the stages can be chosen separately or independent of each other! All of that said, the 1215 has it's limitations as previously mentioned.

While we're dwelling on on what's going on between "modes" and "stages", for the record as I read the manual on page 11, in Mode 3, the Samlex operates in TWO battery charging stages (1 and 3) and skips boost as opposed to "just a constant voltage regulated power supply" as dwh incorrectly states. If being a critic is more important that being a participant, maybe I can get some credit for that? 【・_・?】ゞ

But let's move on to the 13.72 volts @ 68.9 F you are observing-- With temperature compensated battery chargers, voltage is boosted at temps below 77-80 F and I'm wondering if that's what you might be seeing. The Samlex's rated output is 13.5 @ 80 F in float (which operates in ALL modes?) For a nominal 13.6 volt float for the Platinum and a temp correction of +.125 v for temp (= 13.725 volts), it would seem you are right on. I didn't see that the Samlex is temp compensated, but maybe it is or maybe it's just more luck than design.

What you do get credit for is being consistently mistaken about the manual's contents and the Samlex unit's design.

Without any battery whatsoever attached, the Samlex 1215UL will deliver 12.5 amps at 12.5 volts into a 1 ohm 1% 250 watt wirewound resistor with barely 5 millivolts of ac ripple measured. Yes, that was yet another actual test on an actual Samlex 1215UL out in my garage. Real data? What a novel idea!

Or maybe that is more "luck than design"? Maybe read Pages 14 & 15 or better yet the Samlex web site.

http://www.samlexamerica.com/products/ProductDetail.aspx?pid=6

The unit can also be used as a DC Power Supply.

Reading and understanding the whole manual is far better than cherry picking words that support incorrect conclusions.

 

[remote camper]

What you do get credit for is being consistently mistaken about the manual's contents and the Samlex unit's design.

Without any battery whatsoever attached, the Samlex 1215UL will deliver 12.5 amps at 12.5 volts into a 1 ohm 1% 250 watt wirewound resistor with barely 5 millivolts of ac ripple measured. Yes, that was yet another actual test on an actual Samlex 1215UL out in my garage. Real data? What a novel idea!

Or maybe that is more "luck than design"? Maybe read Pages 14 & 15 or better yet the Samlex web site.

http://www.samlexamerica.com/products/ProductDetail.aspx?pid=6

The unit can also be used as a DC Power Supply.

Reading and understanding the whole manual is far better than cherry picking words that support incorrect conclusions.

This is EXACTLY what I referred to in another thread as an example of dwelling on picking the fly specks from the pepper. This thread is about the Odyssey vs the Platinum, not a seminar on the Samlex. Generally we would have to understand the various models of the Samlex only well enough to determine their suitability for use as a charger for the various Platinum and Odyssey batteries and THAT is the focus of my contribution. And as YOUR Samlex goes, it is not good enough for for deep cycling any Odyssey/Platinum much above 37.5 amp hours. In fact, as a charger as far as its spec'd absorption and float voltages go, it is on the low end of nominal, even if it could supply .4 x C10 for ALL the Odyssey/Platinums.

Now if you want to continue to rant on about about the Samlex, engage in stone throwing and cherry picking words you want to pick, you go right ahead! Maybe you SHOULD pack up your Samlex discussion and move to another thread!!! And while you're there you can quote how remote camper didn't know what the h3ll he was talking about as the Samlex goes. You are diluting this thread with other issues that have no relevance to the maintenance of the Odyssey/Platinum and you are almost being (----------) snarky about it. But I will not be surprised if you want to persist in staying here.

 

[teotwaki]

This is EXACTLY what I referred to in another thread as an example of dwelling on picking the fly specks from the pepper. This thread is about the Odyssey vs the Platinum, not a seminar on the Samlex. Generally we would have to understand the various models of the Samlex only well enough to determine their suitability for use as a charger for the various Platinum and Odyssey batteries and THAT is the focus of my contribution. And as YOUR Samlex goes, it is not good enough for for deep cycling any Odyssey/Platinum much above 37.5 amp hours. In fact, as a charger as far as its spec'd absorption and float voltages go, it is on the low end of nominal, even if it could supply .4 x C10 for ALL the Odyssey/Platinums.

Now if you want to continue to rant on about about the Samlex, engage in stone throwing and cherry picking words you want to pick, you go right ahead! Maybe you SHOULD pack up your Samlex discussion and move to another thread!!! And while you're there you can quote how remote camper didn't know what the h3ll he was talking about as the Samlex goes. You are diluting this thread with other issues that have no relevance to the maintenance of the Odyssey/Platinum and you are almost being a pr*@k about it. But I will not be surprised if you want to persist in staying here.

Take a look in the mirror.

Post 282 Is where I mentioned the Samlex as something that I was using and in post 290 DWH agreed with me that we would start a new thread. Then all of your blah-blah-blah thread jacking and ranting about your misreading of the manual occurred in posts 297-298-300-304 where you continue the hysteria and finger pointing in your latest attack in post #308. Sorry that you want to make it personal and call names, but given how you react to facts I am not surprised that you feel a need to distract from your mistakes.

 

[dstock]

For what it is worth...

My Sears did not care that my just under 2 year old Platinums are resting at 12.2-12.4 , which is not the Odyssey spec of 12.8, and will not replace them unless they are actually dead i.e. won't crank the engine over.
Bearing this in mind, might be better to go with the actual Odyssey battery versus the Platinum if you are trying to decide between the two.

 

[Hilldweller]

You're killing me, Jim...
:ylsmoke:

 

[remote camper]

For what it is worth...

My Sears did not care that my just under 2 year old Platinums are resting at 12.2-12.4 , which is not the Odyssey spec of 12.8, and will not replace them unless they are actually dead i.e. won't crank the engine over.
Bearing this in mind, might be better to go with the actual Odyssey battery versus the Platinum if you are trying to decide between the two.

Sorry to hear that. I"m not sure anybody would be better served going with the Odyssey name IPO the Platinum, unless of course their warranty would have covered you under your circumstances. As far as I know and I think Odyssey will confirm, they are built on the same production line in different cases. That's essentially what they told me anyway. When I bought mine, the specs were identical. So, if there are any differences in materials, construction & quality, they're not likely different enough to ward off you woes. I see they are now referring to the Odyssey as Odyssey Extreme. Maybe that's different than the Platinum. Don't know.

I encourage you to talk to Odyssey to see if there is a chance to recover your Platinums and how they would recommend going about it. No guarantees, am sure, but if you stick with an Enersys product, the Ultimizer (or equivalent) in addition to what you are doing is looking more like what you need if you want better life. Mine are holding 12.86 volts OCV at a battery temp of 25 deg F in their 3rd winter. OCV goes higher as they warm to 45 F.

 

[teotwaki]

For what it is worth...

My Sears did not care that my just under 2 year old Platinums are resting at 12.2-12.4 , which is not the Odyssey spec of 12.8, and will not replace them unless they are actually dead i.e. won't crank the engine over. Bearing this in mind, might be better to go with the actual Odyssey battery versus the Platinum if you are trying to decide between the two.

That brings up a good point. When the thread was started there was a decent price delta between the two batteries. Unless Sears has a sale the delta with the Odyssey has shrunk considerably. Then it may boil down to warranty and what sort of vendor you have to deal with.

 

[dstock]

Sorry to hear that. I"m not sure anybody would be better served going with the Odyssey name IPO the Platinum, unless of course their warranty would have covered you under your circumstances. As far as I know and I think Odyssey will confirm, they are built on the same production line in different cases. That's essentially what they told me anyway. When I bought mine, the specs were identical. So, if there are any differences in materials, construction & quality, they're not likely different enough to ward off you woes. I see they are now referring to the Odyssey as Odyssey Extreme. Maybe that's different than the Platinum. Don't know.

I'm not saying there is a difference between the two, what I am suggesting is that Odyssey might actually stand behind their product better than Sears since they have actual published specs regarding testing procedures, etc. Will they? I don't know, I guess someone who has had actual Odyssey battery issues would have to chime in.

 

[teotwaki]

You're killing me, Jim...
:ylsmoke:

No, no no. I need both you and DWH :elkgrin:

 

[dstock]

That brings up a good point. When the thread was started there was a decent price delta between the two batteries. Unless Sears has a sale the delta with the Odyssey has shrunk considerably. Then it may boil down to warranty and what sort of vendor you have to deal with.

Exactly my point.