Oh ... just humor the idiot - please

[Ursa Minor]

easy there zukrider

Every rig has it's pros and cons, let us know when you're ready to post your end-of-the road photos on ExPo...

:sombrero:

Beyond that, from a base in SoCal - there are many great adventures to be had in an unlocked, unlifted, and fairly unremarkable vehicle. The challenge is that there are hours of driving to get to the fun spots via paved roads. After 10+ years of travel in Baja, I can't do every trail anymore with an Element - but there's still plenty of expedition-worthy trips waiting. So if you downshift to a different rig, it's not like all you have left is Home Depot runs for fun...

cheers
John

 

[BIGdaddy]

Every rig has it's pros and cons, let us know when you're ready to post your end-of-the road photos on ExPo...

:sombrero:

Beyond that, from a base in SoCal - there are many great adventures to be had in an unlocked, unlifted, and fairly unremarkable vehicle. The challenge is that there are hours of driving to get to the fun spots via paved roads. After 10+ years of travel in Baja, I can't do every trail anymore with an Element - but there's still plenty of expedition-worthy trips waiting. So if you downshift to a different rig, it's not like all you have left is Home Depot runs for fun...

cheers
John

Hey John. I pimped your company to my family over thanksgiving. You might have some new customers from the Ventura/Ojai area.

 

[Riptide]

Every rig has it's pros and cons, let us know when you're ready to post your end-of-the road photos on ExPo...

Well put, and checkmate.

I, too, have also forwarded your website to current Element owners looking to expand their vehicle's capability. I'm impressed with the concept...

 

[matt s]

The conservationist in you should keep it.

Because if you sell it then someone else is going to drive the wheels off it daily, burning all that precious fuel.

Keep it and drive it for your adventures and drive the economy hybrid for daily things, honestly it sounds like a pretty good setup.

 

[The Swiss]

I fully understand where you are coming from and I would guess that a lot of members of this board are in a similar situation.

Moreover, I bought it with grand intentions of amazing trips to far off places ... which just don't seem to be materializing. Lack of money and time seems to be the biggest issues and look like they will be for the next few years. This leads me to wonder what I am doing with this great rig that I drive maybe 200 miles a month and have only had off-road twice in the 6 months I've owned it.

IMHO, life is too short to drive boring cars. My JK Rubicon does not get a whole more off-road action a year, but she is my daily driver. Every time I drive her, she puts a smile on my face and makes me dream a little. Actually, if you think about it, the commute to the airport is not that much different than the commute to the woods.

It gets 15 MPG and the conservationist in me has real trouble choosing it over my girlfriend's 40 MPG hybrid for 99% of our driving.

Whatever mod I do to my JK, I keep MPG and daily driveability in mind. I average about 18.5 mpg with the RTT. Maybe changing to 33" on your rig and some other mods would increase mpgs without sacrificing too much of its coolness. Maby, your trails get then a little bit more challenging too :elkgrin:

I was thinking either a Honda Element or a Subaru Outback would allow the sort of trips I actually seem to take and are frugal enough on gas that I would be able to take more of them. Throw a 2" lift under either with some AT's and a small roof top tent on top and go. I'd love something that gets at least mid 20's on MPG, could fit her and I and the two 80 lbs dogs comfortably with enough AWD cred to actually get down some decent trails. Sure, the Rubicon is out of the picture, but I never really had any desire for that stuff anyway.

I have been thinking about the same, the Element or an older AWD Astro van, but then again, whenever I look at my JK, life is just too short to drive boring cars

 

[muchosdiaz]

This is an issue I am sure that a lot more of us face than we are willing to admit. 3 years ago I sold my 1994 80 and bought a 2wd Honda Pilot for my wife. Not real adventurous on first appearance, but it hauls our 2 kids around town to soccer and band and assorted things while getting 22 MPG around town and 25-28 on the highway. It is a great roadtrip mobile and has taken us from Austin to Montana several times with lots of entertaining places in between. It does ok on most forest service roads but it has its very real limitations. My daily driver is my wife's ol CRV which is great for weeken exploring aroung here and will haul my mountain bike and Kayak when I do get a little time for myself.
Do I miss my Land cruiser? You bet I do, but I do not miss feeding it. And the reality is that I do not have the time or the money to take months off in it and explore all the back roads in Utah, Colorado and New Mexico like I used to in the days BC(before children). Could I afford to buy a new 4 door wrangler or a few year old landcruiser again? Yes, but I cannot justify it at this time. Is my CRV a great big expedition vehicle? NO, but at least I do not feel as guilty taking a little road trip while getting 10mpg more than the TLC.
Family is great. Kids do not mean the end of travel, just some changes. We have tent camped with the kids now that they are a little older, but when they were young we bought a Chalet Travel Trailer that towed easily and was heated and airconditioned to keep little guys happy, and when they are happy so are you!

So what am I saying. Buy what you can honestly use. If a more economical vehicle will allow you to do the things now that you would like to do great! Down the road if you hit the lottery then you can build a new truck. If you can park your expedition mobile in the garage and buy a econowagen for daily use great!

Good luck with you decision!:smiley_drive:

 

[Wonderland]

Sell the hybrid, to pay for fuel and expenses for a killer trip. I have no idea what your hybrid is worth $15-18K? that will buy a Hell of a lot PeMex, Tecate and Tacos in Baja.

Must get out now, 'cause tomorrow you might be dead. Speaking from experience...

I rented a Subaru OutBack for 10 days on a mountain bike trip. Thinking I wanted to buy one. Sure it got decent gas mileage (only 5 mpg better than my Tacoma), but it was cramped for just the two of us, plus it wasn't as capable to the truck I already had. Couldn't sleep comfortably in the back of it either. The Pros of having a true 4WD far out weighs mpg at least for me. The Tacoma is paid for, would of had to get a loan for a Suby, it wasn't worth it. Far cheaper to keep my Tacoma.

 

[Martinjmpr]

Interesting that this thread has turned philosophical but I think that happened because you are really at something of a philosophical crossroads.

First of all, if you're really getting 15mpg from a built-up 80, you're doing great. I get 12-15 mpg in my non-built-up 4runner in the city.

But getting back to the question: If you think about it, money, being a finite asset, can be used for essentially two things: Having, and Doing.

I think sometimes we get caught up in the "having" bit without really thinking too much about the "doing" part.

I know that every time I get to thinking about what kind of mod I'd like to make (lift kit, ARB bumper, locking diff, etc) I always stop short because I end up asking myself: Do I really need it? Or do I just want to have it?

And would I be better off spending that $800 or $1200 on taking a trip in my unmodified vehicle rather than modifying my vehicle and having it sit at home?

As I said, money is finite (for most people) as is time. As cool as it is to be the owner of a nice, built up 80, do you own it because you use it, or just because it's cool to own it? That's the question you've got to ask yourself.

Or to get more to the point: Is owning the FJ preventing you from doing what you really want to do? Even a paid-for vehicle can be expensive to own and maintain (although I'd definitely avoid falling into the trap of saying "if I buy a new vehicle I'll save money.")

If you knew you would be traveling more if you had a more economical vehicle, and traveling/exploring is what you want to do, then I'd say sell that boat anchor and buy something that supports your real life, not your imaginary/fantasy life.

The idea is to get out there, to explore, to DO. Merely being the owner of a built-up 80, no matter how cool it is, isn't as cool as actually getting out there and exploring.

I did some of my best exploring in a 2wd Ford Ranger pickup. I bought it new in 1999 when I was about to start law school, and no matter how I crunched the numbers I couldn't make the 4wd version work, as badly as I wanted one.

Now, did the 2wd limit me? Hell yes, it did! But I still managed to explore quite a bit of the country in that 2wd Ranger. It wasn't my "dream vehicle", but it was what I needed at the time, and it supported my lifestyle.

(I guess that's the million dollar question: Does your vehicle support your lifestyle or does your lifestyle support your vehicle?)

 

[Martinjmpr]

BTW I might respectfully suggest this would be a good topic for the Fireside Chat area. I'll bet it would get more participation and more viewpoints, and in many ways, the question raised here is exactly the issue that so many of us struggle with on a daily basis.

 

[I Leak Oil]

Think about the money....Lets say you sell it and plan on buying something else. How much are you really going to have left after you buy another vehicle? Probably not enough to travel very much. Maybe you will, but probably not.

 

[spencyg]

Think about the money....Lets say you sell it and plan on buying something else. How much are you really going to have left after you buy another vehicle? Probably not enough to travel very much. Maybe you will, but probably not.

Not only that, but remember (as I have been painfully reminded far too many times) that a modified vehicle will seldom get you back even close what you've got into it. Often times it will actually be harder to sell a highly modified vehicle than one which has been either left stock, or brought back to stock. So factor in removing all custom bits and pieces to be sold seperately if you decide to go down that road. If you do sell it as a package, anything better than $0.25 on the dollar for mods will be worth boasting about. I agree...once you replace the truck with something else (assuming you sell it as a complete package), you'll have little left after replacing it with some boring grocery getter.

Spence

 

[BIGdaddy]

Interesting that this thread has turned philosophical but I think that happened because you are really at something of a philosophical crossroads.

First of all, if you're really getting 15mpg from a built-up 80, you're doing great. I get 12-15 mpg in my non-built-up 4runner in the city.

But getting back to the question: If you think about it, money, being a finite asset, can be used for essentially two things: Having, and Doing.

I think sometimes we get caught up in the "having" bit without really thinking too much about the "doing" part.

I know that every time I get to thinking about what kind of mod I'd like to make (lift kit, ARB bumper, locking diff, etc) I always stop short because I end up asking myself: Do I really need it? Or do I just want to have it?

And would I be better off spending that $800 or $1200 on taking a trip in my unmodified vehicle rather than modifying my vehicle and having it sit at home?

As I said, money is finite (for most people) as is time. As cool as it is to be the owner of a nice, built up 80, do you own it because you use it, or just because it's cool to own it? That's the question you've got to ask yourself.

Or to get more to the point: Is owning the FJ preventing you from doing what you really want to do? Even a paid-for vehicle can be expensive to own and maintain (although I'd definitely avoid falling into the trap of saying "if I buy a new vehicle I'll save money.")

If you knew you would be traveling more if you had a more economical vehicle, and traveling/exploring is what you want to do, then I'd say sell that boat anchor and buy something that supports your real life, not your imaginary/fantasy life.

The idea is to get out there, to explore, to DO. Merely being the owner of a built-up 80, no matter how cool it is, isn't as cool as actually getting out there and exploring.

I did some of my best exploring in a 2wd Ford Ranger pickup. I bought it new in 1999 when I was about to start law school, and no matter how I crunched the numbers I couldn't make the 4wd version work, as badly as I wanted one.

Now, did the 2wd limit me? Hell yes, it did! But I still managed to explore quite a bit of the country in that 2wd Ranger. It wasn't my "dream vehicle", but it was what I needed at the time, and it supported my lifestyle.

(I guess that's the million dollar question: Does your vehicle support your lifestyle or does your lifestyle support your vehicle?)

This, Sir, is excellent.

Thank you for taking the time.

 

[Martinjmpr]

This, Sir, is excellent.

Thank you for taking the time.

Thanks. :sombrero:

Seriously, I think it's important to remember that there is no "one size fits all" solution to the vehicle choice dilemma. A built up 80 or Land Rover may be exactly what one person needs, but another might be able to do just as much "expeditioning" in a Forester with decent tires and a good pair of hiking boots or a mountain bike on the back.

The reason I posted what I did was because I went through a somewhat similar analysis recently myself.

Back when I was single, my dream vehicle was a 4wd extended cab pickup with a shell. Manual transmission and manual crank windows were fine with me and the only "indulgence" I demanded was air conditioning (I lived too long without it and figure I've earned it.) Fitting out the back of the truck with a carpet kit so it could be used for sleeping and a decent cooler and set of camping gear was everything I needed for week-long trips to the back country.

I actually got my dream vehicle in 2007 (an '04 Tacoma) and proceeded to kit it out the way I'd always wanted. And it was good in the beginning.

But the thing is, along the way, I acquired a girlfriend, then fiancee, then wife. Now my wife is a great gal, but she's not a "nature girl" and camping out for a week at a time is not an option with her. So now I faced the dilemma: Do I go on my trips alone, or do I modify the trips so the wife will go with me?

Not only that, I have to admit that, like many people, I have a lot of hobbies: Besides my 4 wheel drive vehicle/camping stuff, I also ride a motorcycle, I hunt and shoot, and I'm interested in history.

I have a small but fairly close family, all of them in the Denver metro area, which means we often get together to celebrate birthdays, weddings, holidays, etc.

On top of all that, I have a job, and of course, my wife has interests too, some of which she wants to share with me (our current project is getting fit at the gym, which is working out well for both of us.)

The net result of all this is that I don't get out to the back country that much in the Summer time. Maybe once a month between roughly June and September is about the limit. The last two years I've also managed to take a few week-long solo trips due to the fact that I get more vacation time than my wife. But that's pretty much it.

So this Summer, after my most recent trip to Nevada (with some of the great folks from ExPo!) I sat down and analyzed what I really needed, vs. what I wanted. Or, to put it differently, I analyzed what I needed to support my actual life vs. what I needed to support my imaginary/fantasy life.

And that, ultimately, is why I sold the Tacoma and got a 10 year old 4runner instead. I actually do need a vehicle that can carry passengers (for times like when my mother and brother needed a ride to the airport, or when dad, brother and I go hunting) and while that 6' bed is convenient, more often than not it sits empty.

With the 4runner, by contrast, it's big enough to do most of what I need it for (I even moved a 6 1/2' couch in it, with the rear liftgate open) and it can be converted to a sleeping area in a pinch. The automatic transmission means my wife can drive it and actually makes it easier to drive off road on everything except steep hills. The electric windows are nice when I'm driving the dog around because I can put down the back window and let her hang her head out.

The only things I've really "lost" by going to the 4runner are things like long-term sleeping capacity that I never really used anyway.

And, as I said above, as to modifications, if I have $800 burning a hole in my pocket, rather than getting an OME lift or an ARB bumper, I'd probably just finance a week long trip. $800 will buy a lot of gas and groceries and if there's someplace that my stock 4runner can't get into without a winch or a lift, I probably don't need to be going there anyway (especially since I normally travel solo.)

I know we all love to discuss gear and mods, and I'll be the first one to confess that I drool when I see a well built up Land Cruiser, Land Rover, or Jeep.

But to me it's like looking at a painting in a museum. I can appreciate the painting as it hangs there, that doesn't mean I want to hang it on my wall at home.

 

[Ruffin' It]

That is brilliant reasoning:wings: well done!

Just for the record, it isn't that I wouldn't use it to it's potential. Part of the reason I bought it was that I had outgrown my stock Disco and knew it'd be cheaper (and a lot more reliable) to buy a previously built 80 than to build my Disco. I just can't seem to find the time or money these days. If I scale down, I do know I'll be missing the capability that I lost - which, now written, seems to make my decison quite a bit easier.

The conservationist in you should keep it.

Because if you sell it then someone else is going to drive the wheels off it daily, burning all that precious fuel.

Keep it and drive it for your adventures and drive the economy hybrid for daily things, honestly it sounds like a pretty good setup.

 

[Ruffin' It]

Tentative Plan

So I had a lot of time to think over Thanksgiving. I came down sick as .... well something that gets really sick Tuesday night (I'm feeling much better now, thank you) and basically only got out of bed to walk my dogs or go to the bathroom until this morning. This gave me a lot of time to weigh pros and cons and this is what I've come up with;
As of now, we commute in the hybrid and there isn't much of a problem other than the dogs are a bit smushed for 3 hours a day. Soon, however, we are Hoping that I will be able to find a new job in my field in Oregon. This will presumably end the shared commute, but will hopefully increase the amount of money we have to work with. I know the job market is tough there, but the environmental field seems to have taken a little less of a hit than others, so I'm hopeful. When I land this great job that pays a real salary, I can pick up a used diesel Jetta wagon and keep the Cruiser as a toy. I don't think 80's are going to depreciate a whole lot more and if mine is usually parked, I will likely not take too bad of a hit if I sell it in a few years. If I still am on the fence about this next winter, I can re-visit the whole idea then.

Yeah, whomever said this thread belongs in Fireside Chat was probably right.