Panniers 101?
- Thread starter off.track
- Start date
Trail Monkey
Adventurer, Overland Certified OC0014
I use the Jesse Panniers and Im very happy with them. Get the liners. The bags are 108L in the Odessy II model that I use. I do not use a hard rear bag, instead I use an Orlieb Waterproof duffel bag (yellow-great for safety) that lays across my rear rack and a bit over the tops of the Jesse's. This setup with a nice tank bag on my KTM 990Adventure will comfortably hold me for camping etc long term.
http://www.xplorermoto.com/o2f650800.html
With the above being stated. For more offroad agressive trips i plan to get a Giant Loop bag and leave the Jesse's and Ortlieb at home..
One note about the Jesses, I find them dry and durable and tight to my bike. However they are a bit of a pain to remove if your habit is to remove every night, for instance to go into a hotel. Its best to just remove the liners. If your camping, not really an issue..
Oh- and one last point, depending on your bike/fuel situation. If you are planning on using the Touratech fuel/fluid bottles to mount on the exterior of the panniers, make sure that they will fit on the style box you buy and in the location you wish, without interfering with rider positioning. I found the odd shape of the Jesse's to cause minor concerns with this. And if you happen to be on a 990 Adventure and want the 2 gal extra tank that is available for the area were the left exhaust is, it wont be compatible without modifications. See www.advrider.com for more info..
http://www.xplorermoto.com/o2f650800.html
With the above being stated. For more offroad agressive trips i plan to get a Giant Loop bag and leave the Jesse's and Ortlieb at home..
One note about the Jesses, I find them dry and durable and tight to my bike. However they are a bit of a pain to remove if your habit is to remove every night, for instance to go into a hotel. Its best to just remove the liners. If your camping, not really an issue..
Oh- and one last point, depending on your bike/fuel situation. If you are planning on using the Touratech fuel/fluid bottles to mount on the exterior of the panniers, make sure that they will fit on the style box you buy and in the location you wish, without interfering with rider positioning. I found the odd shape of the Jesse's to cause minor concerns with this. And if you happen to be on a 990 Adventure and want the 2 gal extra tank that is available for the area were the left exhaust is, it wont be compatible without modifications. See www.advrider.com for more info..
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Christophe Noel
Expedition Leader
Bicycle panniers come in a variety of shapes, sizes and mounting systems. For years, the gold standard was Ortlieb, who later started making moto panniers as Monkey stated. The Ortlieb mounting system is so solid, it's also available on newer Deuter panniers, also out of Germany and readily available in the US. Another excellent option is Vaude. They're extremely similar to those made by Ortlieb and somewhat like the Deuter panniers.
I've become most impressed by the very new panniers offered by Pacific Outdoor Products. The level of detail in their panniers is really excellent. It's the little things on their panniers that set them apart and make them unique.
By the way, almost everything mentioned above is a welded construction which makes the panniers highly water resistant if not waterproof. Courdura panniers like those from JANDD are almost completely obsolete these days.
Regarding size, it's just like backpacks. Some are measured in liters just like most backpacks. How much space you need is completely relative to the way you pack and the duration of your journey, much the way it is for backpacking. So, in that regard, offering a suggestion as to what size you need is impossible without more info.
http://www.ortliebusa.com/cartgenie/prodList.asp?scat=6
http://www.deuterusa.com/products/productDetail.php?packID=rackPackUni&sub=bike&tert=bike
http://www.pacoutdoor.com/
http://www.vaude.com/epages/Vaude-d...cts/151236930&Locale=en_NL&NavSignature=5,2,2
Personally, I would have a hard time using panniers unless my trip exceeded 15+ days total, had resupply points more than 5 days apart or the trip required extreme weather clothing and shelter. However, if forced to use panniers, I would be calling Pacific Outdoor Equipment without second thought.
I've become most impressed by the very new panniers offered by Pacific Outdoor Products. The level of detail in their panniers is really excellent. It's the little things on their panniers that set them apart and make them unique.
By the way, almost everything mentioned above is a welded construction which makes the panniers highly water resistant if not waterproof. Courdura panniers like those from JANDD are almost completely obsolete these days.
Regarding size, it's just like backpacks. Some are measured in liters just like most backpacks. How much space you need is completely relative to the way you pack and the duration of your journey, much the way it is for backpacking. So, in that regard, offering a suggestion as to what size you need is impossible without more info.
http://www.ortliebusa.com/cartgenie/prodList.asp?scat=6
http://www.deuterusa.com/products/productDetail.php?packID=rackPackUni&sub=bike&tert=bike
http://www.pacoutdoor.com/
http://www.vaude.com/epages/Vaude-d...cts/151236930&Locale=en_NL&NavSignature=5,2,2
Personally, I would have a hard time using panniers unless my trip exceeded 15+ days total, had resupply points more than 5 days apart or the trip required extreme weather clothing and shelter. However, if forced to use panniers, I would be calling Pacific Outdoor Equipment without second thought.
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off.track
Adventurer
emohn, yep. 
but this is similar and i did see a thread in the moto area about these, just no in here.
Flounder: sweet info man. i'll have to look closely through the links.
but you got me interested in this:
tell me more.. the trip i'm right now thinking of is the C&O i posted about in another thread here. even though i could pretty much B&B the whole thing i'm looking to stay along the river for the most part. 5 days worth of junk. that's the start anyway. once i accomplish that, who knows where next adventure will take me.
i know i can pretty easily squeeze into 50L, especially in the summer.. 40L may be achievable.. i dunno.. 40lb give or take with H2O.
extreme weather? not really but rain could be an issue.. temps i'm shooting for are 70/50F but would have to be ready for 80+/20F...
what's your thoughts on front bags as well as handlebar ones?
thanks
but this is similar and i did see a thread in the moto area about these, just no in here.Flounder: sweet info man. i'll have to look closely through the links.
but you got me interested in this:
tell me more.. the trip i'm right now thinking of is the C&O i posted about in another thread here. even though i could pretty much B&B the whole thing i'm looking to stay along the river for the most part. 5 days worth of junk. that's the start anyway. once i accomplish that, who knows where next adventure will take me.
i know i can pretty easily squeeze into 50L, especially in the summer.. 40L may be achievable.. i dunno.. 40lb give or take with H2O.
extreme weather? not really but rain could be an issue.. temps i'm shooting for are 70/50F but would have to be ready for 80+/20F...
what's your thoughts on front bags as well as handlebar ones?
thanks
Christophe Noel
Expedition Leader
The C&O is mild terrain and as such, panniers wouldn't be out of the question. Panniers are great for accommodating bigger loads and making packing easy, but you lose a great deal of agility with those monkeys clinging to your bike. For singletrack touring, that's a critical consideration. Even pushing a bike along singletrack with panniers on your bike is a bummer.
The C&O won't require a bike with singletrack level agility, so panniers wouldn't be that bad, but once you set your sights on singletrack, you'll need to come up with a better solution. If - you want to keep your bike fun to ride.
Regarding bar bags, there are two styles. There are framed bar bags that have a hard mount and a frame within the bag. Those are much like a pannier for your bars. Great for mellow terrain which is why they're so popular for road touring and milder offroad touring. Soft bags, like those I use hold smaller loads (3-4 pounds) but they really don't alter the handling of the bike much at all.
The C&O won't require a bike with singletrack level agility, so panniers wouldn't be that bad, but once you set your sights on singletrack, you'll need to come up with a better solution. If - you want to keep your bike fun to ride.
Regarding bar bags, there are two styles. There are framed bar bags that have a hard mount and a frame within the bag. Those are much like a pannier for your bars. Great for mellow terrain which is why they're so popular for road touring and milder offroad touring. Soft bags, like those I use hold smaller loads (3-4 pounds) but they really don't alter the handling of the bike much at all.
Grim Reaper
Expedition Leader
Dirt trails with frequent water...Ortleib rollers or possibly the new Topeaks. Not much else I would even think about using in the mud or a lot of dust.
For road I would look at the Condura nylons like Arkle http://arkel-od.com/ or Novara from REI.
The sealed all the time panniers like the rollers don't breath so well and may get the stink going so for the road a conventional panniers with a rain-fly is usually a better choice. When dealing with mud it is a justifiable trade off since the Condura is going to be a major pain with heavy dirt or that can be rinsed off the Ortleibs
For road I would look at the Condura nylons like Arkle http://arkel-od.com/ or Novara from REI.
The sealed all the time panniers like the rollers don't breath so well and may get the stink going so for the road a conventional panniers with a rain-fly is usually a better choice. When dealing with mud it is a justifiable trade off since the Condura is going to be a major pain with heavy dirt or that can be rinsed off the Ortleibs
off.track
Adventurer
thanks guys. yeah, i'm not looking to get into single track right now, that kind of opportunity is basically non existant anywhere around here anyway.
while looking into these things, i figured out that one paper grocery sack is almost 20L in size.. i'm going to work on packing into a couple of these sacks to see what size would work for me best.
thanks for your replies and the excellent info.
while looking into these things, i figured out that one paper grocery sack is almost 20L in size.. i'm going to work on packing into a couple of these sacks to see what size would work for me best.
thanks for your replies and the excellent info.
Forty years ago when i started bike touring it took me years of trying many different panniers to finally settle on ones that served my needs. Once you know that this will not be a one off activity but a life long one you are better able to make your choice based on design and material quality and not only by price.
As mentioned above you need to decide what type of touring you will be doing in what seasons and weather and on or off pavement or on single track trails.
You can make do with almost anything that you can attach to a rack or to your back but the trick is to do this with comfort and safety. Weight on your back raises your center of gravity and reduces stability.
The panniers need to stay on the rack until you want to remove them not when you hit a bump or swerve around something. They need to be at least water resistant and have durable hardware for mounting and for opening and closing the bags.They must not flop around as you steer the bike as this can cause a crash. Compression straps help with this.
One obvious lesson I learned on my first tour- less weight makes the tour more fun. I have worked on that for decades with incremental success.
On the Divide Ride off pavement from Banff in Canada to Mexico I used only two front panniers and a dry bag stuffer on top of my rear rack. I carried 18 pounds of equipment to handle all conditions including repairs. [A Mike Curiak or J Petervary or Matthew Lee race the same route with 10 pounds or less and finish in 2 weeks some six weeks ahead of me.] My excuse if I need one is that they are 35 years younger.
On the Divide ride I met of tourists struggling on bikes overloaded with 80+ pound loads on trailers. They brought everything that they needed for comfort and security at home. They had a hard long time on the route and had wheel and frame problems. I had no mechanical problems but the engine could use an overhaul soon.
Over the years I have preferred panniers made in the US by small one person cottage industry people. My panniers for the last 25 years were made by Robert Beckman Designs in Bend Oregon. They just work for me for any type of tour. I do not know if he is still in business. The website is down today.
Other new style rackless bags are made by Carousel Design Works in Sonora, Calif and Epic Designs in Alaska. My rear stuffer comes from Carousel.
I hope you enjoy bike touring as much as I have no matter how you carry your equipment.
As mentioned above you need to decide what type of touring you will be doing in what seasons and weather and on or off pavement or on single track trails.
You can make do with almost anything that you can attach to a rack or to your back but the trick is to do this with comfort and safety. Weight on your back raises your center of gravity and reduces stability.
The panniers need to stay on the rack until you want to remove them not when you hit a bump or swerve around something. They need to be at least water resistant and have durable hardware for mounting and for opening and closing the bags.They must not flop around as you steer the bike as this can cause a crash. Compression straps help with this.
One obvious lesson I learned on my first tour- less weight makes the tour more fun. I have worked on that for decades with incremental success.
On the Divide Ride off pavement from Banff in Canada to Mexico I used only two front panniers and a dry bag stuffer on top of my rear rack. I carried 18 pounds of equipment to handle all conditions including repairs. [A Mike Curiak or J Petervary or Matthew Lee race the same route with 10 pounds or less and finish in 2 weeks some six weeks ahead of me.] My excuse if I need one is that they are 35 years younger.
On the Divide ride I met of tourists struggling on bikes overloaded with 80+ pound loads on trailers. They brought everything that they needed for comfort and security at home. They had a hard long time on the route and had wheel and frame problems. I had no mechanical problems but the engine could use an overhaul soon.
Over the years I have preferred panniers made in the US by small one person cottage industry people. My panniers for the last 25 years were made by Robert Beckman Designs in Bend Oregon. They just work for me for any type of tour. I do not know if he is still in business. The website is down today.
Other new style rackless bags are made by Carousel Design Works in Sonora, Calif and Epic Designs in Alaska. My rear stuffer comes from Carousel.
I hope you enjoy bike touring as much as I have no matter how you carry your equipment.
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Christophe Noel
Expedition Leader
Jeff at Carousel Design Works was nice enough to provide me with the bags featured in the most recent Overland Journal Gear Guide. They're pretty amazing bags.
Christophe
chris_the_wrench
Fixer & Builder of Things
Don't forget your racks are very critical in the search for a good pannier system. I've seen too many Ortlieb panniers come through the shop mounted to cheap racks that couldn't support the weight loaded on them, or didn't have the adjustment to move the panniers far enough back to avoid the cyclists heels.
-Chris
-Chris
I focused on panniers only in my long post above but racks are very critical as Bike_Mech notes.
In 1986 I broke a Blackburn front rack at 5000meters/16500feet in the Andes of Ecuador. I replaced it and the rear one with Bruce Gordon CrOMo steel tubing racks.
The racks and panniers become a rigid extension of the frame and there is no pannier movement under any condition. The Beckman Panniers and Gordon Racks were designed together and they are still going strong after almost 25 years. Quality counts in my experience
In 1986 I broke a Blackburn front rack at 5000meters/16500feet in the Andes of Ecuador. I replaced it and the rear one with Bruce Gordon CrOMo steel tubing racks.
The racks and panniers become a rigid extension of the frame and there is no pannier movement under any condition. The Beckman Panniers and Gordon Racks were designed together and they are still going strong after almost 25 years. Quality counts in my experience
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chris_the_wrench
Fixer & Builder of Things
And if a steel rack breaks finding someone to weld it in a place like the Andes of Ecuador is going to be easier than finding someone who can weld an aluminum rack.
-Chris
It probably isn't possible to get better racks than the ones made by Bruce Gordon and his panniers are high quality too.
http://www.bgcycles.com/
http://www.bgcycles.com/
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