Past the point of no return...

4Rescue

Expedition Leader
This truck sounds and looks - from what I've seen - SWEET!!!! I think that the slip yoke /splined shaft/link idea is a good one. SO TB: Sway Bars??? I don't know if you answered that question and I missed it or not, sorry if so. I'm just curious cause like I've said BAD THINGS can happen to good people. I REALLY like the added flex and the ride quality of the linked trucks, but all the complexity (anit-squat, castor/camber, this axle rotation issue etc...) has made me resolute in using leaves... I'll never flex like you, but for me that's not as much of an issue.

Love this truck eh. and I LOVE the 55 you picked up eh. Is it yours??? it looks SO straight from the pics... Those are two AWESOME Toyotas ( is there anything better then a Toyota really ;) I sure haven't found anything...)

Cheers

DAve
 

TangoBlue

American Adventurist
Finally... PhotoBucket let me in. Saturday and Sunday saw about 500 miles of interstate and 2-lane PA mountain roads and it did superbly; not much different feel than my IFS with OME suspension. Mileage sucked the first day heading into 30-40 mph winds but Sunday saw essentailly pre-fuel consumption levels. Also, the ALCANs are spec'd for 800 pound capacity.

For those following the thread you recall I mentioned the pre-SAC weight of 4300 pounds unloaded. Guess what the weight is now...

Here is the truck today... tires on order (36 in); and yes, it does have a Currie Anti-Rock front sway bar.

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Front shot, underbody...

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Rear shot, underbody...

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Now for the poser shots on the ramp...

CIMG1009.jpg


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That's enough flex for me... I'm not too greedy. Nor do I want to be washing my trousers all that often out in the field. I'll post some closing shots of the truck with the new rubber when they get mounted.
 
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4Rescue

Expedition Leader
Truck looks GREAT TB... So it IS pretty much a Radius arm set-up eh. The 36's will looks prefect under there. Glad to hear it's working well. Thanks for the Sway bar answer.

next Q: Is that an FJ80 Hi-pinion diff??? Or a 9" Ford unit. I like the fab'd axle housing you used eh. Looks BEEFY to say the least.

Cheers

Dave
 

keating

New member
SO... A 4-link with no ability for one of the links to shrink and grow will break mounts or welds??? THat's interesting. WHat would happen if you made REAL beefy mounts etc. is it just a matter of time before SOMETHING folded and gave way like a link or that housing???
If you built it super beefy, then you would just limit articulation.
The stuffed side rolls back, and the droop side wants to roll forward, so if the links don't allow the housing to roll forward, the wheel doesn't droop, and goes airborne. it will probably be a little springy, as steel has some give. You'll be stressing all the components of the suspension.

I like the idea of a splined "slip yoke" style link to cure this. Better anyway then a ruber deal that'll wear out and be of concern (or maybe I'm wrong on this and it's no concern at all???)
In my experience (and maybe salt/grime laden climate?) a rubber bushing will outlast pretty much any sort of spherical bearing end.
It does allow some "give" which many folks don't like in a linked suspension. Too soft bushings, especially on all link attachment points can cause something similar to axle wrap under high power.

I'd imagine a 4-link would be just the same though eh, the individual links have in different path and diferent centre-points that the "Arc" of the arm is based off eh.

a true 4 link (4 attachment points at the axle and 4 attachment points at the frame) can be engineered (control arms lengths and angles wrt each other) such that there can be nearly no rotation of the axle through it's travel.
In the extreme case, you could design a 4 link such that the axle rolls in the same direction upon compression and extension of the suspension (geez...that sounds like a bit from Schoolhouse Rock).
It's definately a more complicated design since you have a lot more factors to consider, like how it affects castor, as well as roll center and dive/squat behavior.
You could benefit from this in that stuffing one side would actually force the other side to extend, but in practical terms, to do that, you may not have room for a driveshaft, or you may have to put link ends in the driver's crotch or something, so it's a difficult problem.
There's no free lunch.

SO is this like a "Radius arm" set-up??? How does the 80-series combat this??? AND, how does the Panhard bar counteract this, does the "johnny joint" have enough rotatrional allowence to not bind up???

This is Exactly a radius arm design, same as an LC80, however, with the axle end link points behind rather than below the axle.
The 80 series uses rubber bushings to locate the axle, so there's enough "give" in the bushings to allow the axle to articulate within the use case Toyota expects for an unmodified vehicle.
The Panhard bar doesn't counteract the binding. In many cases a panhard just acts as another link with more restriction, however, it's is VERY necessary in a radius arm, non-triangulated 3 link, or 4 link to locate the axle under the vehicle. In the worst link designs, the axle is forced left/right so much under articulation that the panhard bar will also prevent articulation.

Sounds like IPOR definately has this one under control :victory:
 
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Box Rocket

Well-known member
in the first ramp pic, i would have expected that front CO to compress a lot more than that. At least in that first pic that's like IFS type front end flex. Is that part of the limitations you guys have been discussing with the radius arm setup? or are the coils actually too stiff?
 

goldenbeagle

Adventurer
Well, that's up for debate; apparently you must have missed my "nice rack" mod... :rolleyes:

CIMG0727.jpg


or the "smiley face" air bag key mod. ;)

CIMG0925.jpg

Best rack hands down...never seen it done like that. That is just silly sweet!

As for everything else so far...keep it rolling...:drool:
 

TangoBlue

American Adventurist
in the first ramp pic, i would have expected that front CO to compress a lot more than that. At least in that first pic that's like IFS type front end flex. Is that part of the limitations you guys have been discussing with the radius arm setup? or are the coils actually too stiff?

Yes - sharp eye! That was with the PS UCA in, that we are going to spline, sleeve, and pin. The following, "more flexy" pics were with it removed completely. Is everything still stiff? You bet, but they will loosen up and settle some more after a little use.

Best rack hands down...never seen it done like that. That is just silly sweet!

As for everything else so far...keep it rolling...:drool:

Thanks! I'll be starting a collection to do just that -- keep it rolling -- as soon as get this tax-exempt thing figured out. ;)

But you know what surprises me?

No one has guessed about the how much of a weight change these additions have made from when I took it in pre-SAC at 4300 pounds. Meh... maybe its just me, and everybody else must have tons of HP/TQ to spare.
 

trump

Adventurist
But you know what surprises me?

No one has guessed about the how much of a weight change these additions have made from when I took it in pre-SAC at 4300 pounds. Meh... maybe its just me, and everybody else must have tons of HP/TQ to spare.

I'll bite.

...you're still not going to talk me into following your lead though.:coffeedrink:
 

jim65wagon

Well-known member
....I took it in pre-SAC at 4300 pounds. Meh... maybe its just me, and everybody else must have tons of HP/TQ to spare.

I'd like to know too. I don't have tons of HP/TQ to spare, but I do have an extra "Expedition Portal" sticker; I hear they're good for 5 HP. I'm guessing you're a little slower than before....even if it's only in wind resistance. I promise I won't recommend a V8 swap (even if that's what it really needs) and I won't even make any more Amish Buggy comments (but it would look cool in flat black with a slow moving vehicle triangle on the tailgate)
 

4Rescue

Expedition Leader
SO fill uis in mate!!!! How much weight did you fain. I think you're right though, most folks have moved AWAY form the smaller motors while you and I seem to be soldiering on wiht our little 4-bangers (actually they're BIG for a 4cylinder Gas motor) What, like an added 600lbs??? MORE??? Man I can't imagine wiht all the complexity and bulk of junk the new IFS has to it that you come out TOO much heavier eh. Clearly though from your tone I'm flat WRONG eh ;)

So let me in on the big secret eh. Now I'm dying to know.

I see that the front is just an HP 8" diff right??? Good enough, they're strong diff's for their size and I'll be runningthe same one of these days. DID you use a V6 (is there an HP V6 3rd since there were never any V6 SFA Toyotas...) Again, that Housing is a thing of beauty TB. I like the beefyness of the actual pumpkin since that tends to get bashed up alot eh.

OK, I'm gonna eat my words a bit mate... (SHHHH don't tell my overinflated EGO) but that Low-profile TG front bumper looks GREAT. Plus I think I could fab my own Grill and HL hoop and then make my Fender bars to attach to my sliders I'm having made at the same time... The price is just too hard for me to resist... HOPEFULLY I won't have the same issue wiht TG this time around. Ya know, CROW doesn't taste half bad, just needs pepper and a bit o salt HAHAHAHAHA :)

Cheers

DAve
 

Wheelingnoob

Adventurer
I see that the front is just an HP 8" diff right??? Good enough, they're strong diff's for their size and I'll be runningthe same one of these days. DID you use a V6 (is there an HP V6 3rd since there were never any V6 SFA Toyotas...) Again, that Housing is a thing of beauty TB. I like the beefyness of the actual pumpkin since that tends to get bashed up alot eh.

DAve

The Toyota 8" HiPinion 3rd is from the front of the 80 series, no options for 4cyl or V6 like the mini truck diffs. Its a plenty strong diff for what that truck is set up for. Guys with 80's running 37+ tires on them and 7000lbs.
 

007

Explorer
I wonder about the weight, but since you only haul a roll of toilet paper and a shovel, you should be fine :wings:
 

TangoBlue

American Adventurist
I'll bite.

...you're still not going to talk me into following your lead though.:coffeedrink:

Were you at OX10 last year? I think I recall seeing a built white Tacoma with black rockers on the highway overpass and you waved... I'm aged with a fading memory. There weren't a lot of our vehicles there.

I'd like to know too. I don't have tons of HP/TQ to spare, but I do have an extra "Expedition Portal" sticker; I hear they're good for 5 HP. I'm guessing you're a little slower than before....even if it's only in wind resistance. I promise I won't recommend a V8 swap (even if that's what it really needs) and I won't even make any more Amish Buggy comments (but it would look cool in flat black with a slow moving vehicle triangle on the tailgate)

My butt-dynomometer registered a 20% increase in pep. I can't explain it per se, but felt as if there was less rolling resistance. Lance got all scientific and what-not by explaining something about axles and stiffer springs. I nodded politely. Recommend away... I can always wish for more power; or a SC.

SO fill uis in mate!!!! How much weight did you fain. I think you're right though, most folks have moved AWAY form the smaller motors while you and I seem to be soldiering on wiht our little 4-bangers (actually they're BIG for a 4cylinder Gas motor) What, like an added 600lbs??? MORE??? Man I can't imagine wiht all the complexity and bulk of junk the new IFS has to it that you come out TOO much heavier eh. Clearly though from your tone I'm flat WRONG eh ;)

So let me in on the big secret eh. Now I'm dying to know.

I see that the front is just an HP 8" diff right??? Good enough, they're strong diff's for their size and I'll be runningthe same one of these days. DID you use a V6 (is there an HP V6 3rd since there were never any V6 SFA Toyotas...) Again, that Housing is a thing of beauty TB. I like the beefyness of the actual pumpkin since that tends to get bashed up alot eh.

OK, I'm gonna eat my words a bit mate... (SHHHH don't tell my overinflated EGO) but that Low-profile TG front bumper looks GREAT. Plus I think I could fab my own Grill and HL hoop and then make my Fender bars to attach to my sliders I'm having made at the same time... The price is just too hard for me to resist... HOPEFULLY I won't have the same issue wiht TG this time around. Ya know, CROW doesn't taste half bad, just needs pepper and a bit o salt HAHAHAHAHA :)

Cheers

DAve

Yes, it's an 8 inch HP diff from Trail Gear, yet again. http://www.trail-gear.com/differential-housings

The bumper is an ARB - you must be talking about the TG axle housing.

I wonder about the weight, but since you only haul a roll of toilet paper and a shovel, you should be fine :wings:

Dang - where you been? I figured you ended up doing that "Legends of the Fall," end of movie scene, wrestling with the legendary ol' Grizzly in the MT mountains. Laugh now young padawan at the scented double-ply and lanolin towelettes; then we will see who chortles last when all you have is a hand-full of soggy leaves and scented pine cones this summer.

Oh, there were questions about the weight of the truck after the SAC.

Before I reveal that I'd like to give my thanks to the Stafford County commercial dump and their scale operator for gratis weight measurements. You're a fine American and fellow Tacoma owner.

Now keep in mind I've asked this same question to folks familiar with the build, the fabricators at IPOR, and everyone guesses anywhere between 500 to 1000 pounds over the original "empty" weight. Except one guy - a maintainer and fabricator of complicated organic systems, or general surgeon, who drives a pristine 80-series. Just kidding - that thing is a beast and no terrain is safe from the wrath of the RAZIN. He leaves part numbers on everything so it makes it easier to replace them after he breaks them. He must have been the ringer since he cuts stuff out of people every day. Got it right on the money. Props to Rich.

What did I say we started with? 4300 pounds?

Well, it ended up being 4380 pounds.

Now guess the frame to floor height... nah, it's 26.5 inches.

Thanks to all those that played...
 

Viggen

Just here...
Man, those flex shots look great. I didnt see the grille set up on when I was there. Is that something that you just added? From first hand sight knowledge, the set up looks pretty beefy and stout. I dont remember seeing that RTI ramp either.


This is a sweet truck and cannot wait to see it on 36s (ATs or MTs?). Whats your first trip going to be?
 

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