Payload Tolerances: how close to max is too much?

[1000arms]

I haven’t read your thread attachments, but I’ve read and commented in many of your threads, so I’ll make a a few comments and suggestions here.

Consider the CCLB 4x4 DRW 350/3500 PICKUP trucks. They come as a completed trucks (unlike the chassis cab trucks). The pickup bed can be swapped for a flatbed (Duramag makes them, just make sure capacity is enough). The trucks can be parked in places banning motorhomes and commercial trucks. It would be a pickup truck with a box. 😀

The DRW would help with load capacity and stability.

There are many tires available for the “one ton” DRW (current) 17” rims. They can be aired down but beware tires rubbing.

I know you aren’t interested in towing, but for other people, I will mention that if drivers are available, a second vehicle can be towed for much of the trip, but disconnected for city parking,, emergency runs, day trips, etc.

You might check one of your first threads for my comments about using a pickup truck, now that you are considering a lighter camper.

 

[ReluctantTraveler]

I haven’t read your thread attachments, but I’ve read and commented in many of your threads, so I’ll make a a few comments and suggestions here.

Consider the CCLB 4x4 DRW 350/3500 PICKUP trucks. They come as a completed trucks (unlike the chassis cab trucks). The pickup bed can be swapped for a flatbed (Duramag makes them, just make sure capacity is enough). The trucks can be parked in places banning motorhomes and commercial trucks. It would be a pickup truck with a box. 😀

The DRW would help with load capacity and stability.

There are many tires available for the “one ton” DRW (current) 17” rims. They can be aired down but beware tires rubbing.

I know you aren’t interested in towing, but for other people, I will mention that if drivers are available, a second vehicle can be towed for much of the trip, but disconnected for city parking,, emergency runs, day trips, etc.

You might check one of your first threads for my comments about using a pickup truck, now that you are considering a lighter camper.

I just saw someone else mention the F-350/3500 DRW option in another thread, too, and I think it's really viable!

It adds an extra 1,000-1,500 lbs to the payload capacity, and I believe is a bit narrower than the F-550/5500?

I didn't realize they don't run 19" tires. Another win, IMO. I suppose you could always single them down later if you wanted to.

That's a great suggestion! Thanks!

 

[andy_b]

I just saw someone else mention the F-350/3500 DRW option in another thread, too, and I think it's really viable!

It adds an extra 1,000-1,500 lbs to the payload capacity, and I believe is a bit narrower than the F-550/5500?

I didn't realize they don't run 19" tires. Another win, IMO. I suppose you could always single them down later if you wanted to.

That's a great suggestion! Thanks!

As you found out in the other thread discussing ventilation, an important point is to be aware that the brochure/website payload can differ substantially when you're on the scales.



The DRW F350's have a decent bump in payload but you'll still be carrying some limitations from the smaller trucks (specifically, turning circle). The F550 will take up the same amount of pavement/parking space as a DRW F350 and be able to carry more stuff, which is exactly why you've started this thread to begin with.

To your point about trucks being hard to find, the pool of DRW F350s is going to be smaller than SRW F350s. I think since you don't have a truck, you might as start where you want to end up...

To answer the original question, 75-80% seems like a good number.

 

[ReluctantTraveler]

As you found out in the other thread discussing ventilation, an important point is to be aware that the brochure/website payload can differ substantially when you're on the scales.


View attachment 817064
The DRW F350's have a decent bump in payload but you'll still be carrying some limitations from the smaller trucks (specifically, turning circle). The F550 will take up the same amount of pavement/parking space as a DRW F350 and be able to carry more stuff, which is exactly why you've started this thread to begin with.

To your point about trucks being hard to find, the pool of DRW F350s is going to be smaller than SRW F350s. I think since you don't have a truck, you might as start where you want to end up...

To answer the original question, 75-80% seems like a good number.

Fantastic summary. Thanks Andy!

 

[simple]

There's a difference between 1 ton 350's and the larger trucks when it comes to service.

For the most part, anything larger than a 1 ton 350, you have to go to commercial tire shops and commercial truck mechanic shops.

I found this out with my F450. Tire shops have to have a special certification to do commercial truck tires. At least in Washington that's what they told me.

 

[ReluctantTraveler]

There's a difference between 1 ton 350's and the larger trucks when it comes to service.

For the most part, anything larger than a 1 ton 350, you have to go to commercial tire shops and commercial truck mechanic shops.

I found this out with my F450. Tire shops have to have a special certification to do commercial truck tires. At least in Washington that's what they told me.

Believe me: I’d desperately like to make a 1 ton work!

 

[StenchRV]

This is just my opinion, but I would go ahead and get the largest truck that I could afford. An F550 (or what ever Chevy and Ram make) would be my choice. You get the capacity that you need for your build and have a truck can take quite a bit of abuse and not flinch. I'd rather be at 75% of the capacity of an F550 than at 100% capacity of an F350.

EXACTLY! PLUS my 5500 will turn circles around my 2014 GMC DMAX! Wide track small turning radius has already been a huge help off roading. "Under trucked" is not a good, or safe, thing.

My 2 cents....

CHEERS!!

 

[ReluctantTraveler]

I too have read many of you threads but can't remember why a regular old crew dually long box with large slide in camper won't do, or is off the table.

Surely there must be many such used combos for sale in the USA.

Natch there'd be downsides but it seems to me it might hit the easy button.

On the weight question, I'd want to be less than the axle ratings at the very least. Just using total payload doesn't work, I'd look at how the weight is distributed between the axles and how much available "payload" you might have on the rear axle in particular.

Regarding "a regular old crew dually with a slide-in camper": 0 interest for a handful of reasons, some of them valid, some of them not.

1. They're mostly too small inside for a family of four + dog.
2. They often lack the water capacity I want, and typically are three season only.
3. They typically don't have much in the way of solar or battery capacity, and most use 120v AC units.
4. They for the most part use RV-grade construction and components. I've seen what that looks like, it's not great!
5. The ones that have more off-grid/four-season capability and are better constructed are wildly expensive, even used.
6. They're generally pretty ugly.

 

[ReluctantTraveler]

@Moyshe Kapoyer @StenchRV Everything about this lifestyle is trade-offs, right?

A trailer is just off-the-table for me. I have one now, and I hate towing. We don't "camp." We bring a hotel room with us and travel. My goal is to have something more nimble (and that also utilizes the space we do have better).

As an example, every year we do a trip up-and-down the East Coast of the US. Last year, we stopped in Savannah for the day on our way from one stop to the next. Navigating the narrow streets with a camper in-tow was a nightmare. Parking was incredibly difficult. We ended up really far away from all the stuff we wanted to be near.

Similarly, the F-550 vs. F-350 debate is all about tradeoffs.

The F-550/5500 means you basically don't even have to think about payload. You've got more than you'll ever need. The wider track means more stability and, as you pointed out, a better turning radius. Lots of upside!

Conversely, an F-350 is overall smaller. While it can't turn quite as tightly, it can fit in more spaces. You can park in a standard parking space with it! And the SRW means you can more easily drive on snow or sand if you wanted to (and we do!).

You can super single an F-550 if you want to, sure, but that's $20k extra you need to budget for... and you're still really wide navigating narrow city streets and country roads. And because they're commercial trucks, the used market is filled with high mileage vehicles with beat up interiors.

This is not me saying the F-550/5500 is a bad or wrong choice. It's a perfectly good and valid one. But the alternative, which I think is equally valid, is to be a lot more deliberate about what you can carry with you in exchange for a bit more nimbleness and access to places a bigger vehicle can't as easily go.

I think about it a bit like the EarthCruiser vs. EarthRoamer approach to overlanding. Both can take you to some pretty incredible places, but the way they approach travel is very different.

If you made it this far, thanks for reading! ❤️

 

[andy_b]

Conversely, an F-350 is overall smaller. While it can't turn quite as tightly, it can fit in more spaces. You can park in a standard parking space with it! And the SRW means you can more easily drive on snow or sand if you wanted to (and we do!).

[/QUOTE]

This is not true. They are functionally the same size. Assuming the same wheelbase and overhangs, the 550 will easily fit into any space the 350 would.

 

[ReluctantTraveler]

@andy_b I was convinced you were wrong, but… eating my words! https://media.ford.com/content/dam/...uper-duty/21-Super-Duty-Pickup-Tech-Specs.pdf

If I’m reading the right, the mirrors on the 350 come out just as wide as in the 550. The difference is that the 550’s duallies are the same width as the mirrors. Is that right?

The DRW/SRW issues stand (and the rougher ride), but that’s one issue eliminated.

 

[andy_b]

@andy_b I was convinced you were wrong, but… eating my words! https://media.ford.com/content/dam/fordmedia/North America/US/product/2021/super-duty/21-Super-Duty-Pickup-Tech-Specs.pdf

If I’m reading the right, the mirrors on the 350 come out just as wide as in the 550. The difference is that the 550’s duallies are the same width as the mirrors. Is that right?

The DRW/SRW issues stand (and the rougher ride), but that’s one issue eliminated.

The track width is within the mirrors on both trucks with the 550's track closer to the width of the mirrors.

I bet that you're still planning on new wheels/tires for the 350; the 550's wheel and tire package will probably cost more, it's true, but it isn't as though wheels and tires are a 550-only cost. Likewise, both trucks would need a reworked suspension - the 350 because it is heavy and the 550 because it is light. For a vehicle intended to take long road trips, a comfortable ride is more than a passing frivolity.

 

[ReluctantTraveler]

The track width is within the mirrors on both trucks with the 550's track closer to the width of the mirrors.

I bet that you're still planning on new wheels/tires for the 350; the 550's wheel and tire package will probably cost more, it's true, but it isn't as though wheels and tires are a 550-only cost. Likewise, both trucks would need a reworked suspension - the 350 because it is heavy and the 550 because it is light. For a vehicle intended to take long road trips, a comfortable ride is more than a passing frivolity.

For sure! On the F-550, I'd be looking into either a Kelderman or Liquid Spring system, though both are $$$.

 

[andy_b]

For sure! On the F-550, I'd be looking into either a Kelderman or Liquid Spring system, though both are $$$.

I've driven Liquid Spring trucks - they're nice, but not enough for cost IMHO. The Kelderman 4 link rear has more value and is easier to service but still expensive. If it were me, I'd probably get custom valved shocks from your vendor of choice, new front coils and a made to order rear spring pack. Not as sophisticated but cheaper and easier to live with.

 

[ReluctantTraveler]

I've driven Liquid Spring trucks - they're nice, but not enough for cost IMHO. The Kelderman 4 link rear has more value and is easier to service but still expensive. If it were me, I'd probably get custom valved shocks from your vendor of choice, new front coils and a made to order rear spring pack. Not as sophisticated but cheaper and easier to live with.

The appeal of both Kelderman and Liquid Springs is the automatic leveling. Not sure it's worth $10-20k, but it's still appealing!

I know you said you were looking to jump up to a F550/5500. Would you be singling out the tires or keep the stock duallies?