Poll: how many of you know that driving in washes in AZ is illegal?

[DesertRose]

We all know that it's illegal (and stupid) to drive across unroaded habitat anywhere in AZ, but how many of you all know that in some parts of Arizona it is illegal to drive up washes? In Pima County it is clearly made illegal by ordinance. In other areas, it's a bit grayer because the law states you must travel only on existing roads - but who defines that?

This is becoming more of an issue because of ATV abuse especially during hunting season. We live out in the boonies, and ATVs are accessing all areas - including roadless areas - by going up washes. Too many times one of Jonathan's hunts has been totally knackered by an ATV driving right past a hide he had been at since before dawn, having backpacked there over many rugged miles.

Game and Fish and others are gearing up to crack down on this. Let's be proactive and help educate folks about responsible driving, so we don't lose any more access.

Here's a link for the regs on off-highway driving in AZ, but it's part of the problem: the site makes the info a bit too hard to mine, and thus, to understand.

Arizona Game & Fish OHV Regulations

 

[flyingwil]

Great Post! However, I believe it is marketed to the wrong group. I have to admit, that being new to AZ I have driven by several washes, and thought that it would be fun to ride in them, especially with a bit of water/mud in them, but never have ventured down into one (not on a trail). I am sure that others out there are oblivious to the harm driving in the wash creates and the legalities behind it. I think the best way to combat this issue might be a letter into the newspaper or maybe even a few of the local news stations might get the word out better. If we all were to write in in regards to the same situation and issue I am sure they would do a story on it. However, I see the problem being lack of education, and many of the people that abuse the land are not aware they are violating any law or doing harm. "Hey the commercial says I can!" If we were to get the word out to local news, I believe it would trickle down to these riders.

Also the pages in your link do not work, I understand that it is not your fault, however, doing a Google search results in very few results in stating that driving in Dry washes is illegal. Hmmm.

 

[Ursidae69]

Many of the best trails are in washes. As long as you don't run over any veg, tortoises, or snakes, it probably isn't much harm. Although, the spilling of fluids in washes is a bad idea, some of the harder wash trails do have a lot of oils in them. This is not good at all.


My deer hunt last year in the Black Range was interrupted by some fat doods on quads. I woke up to blowing wind, snow 6in deep, and really cold. I still was hiking an hour before daylight back into an area that was closed to motor vehicles. It was one of the grazing allotments around Ted Turner's Ladder Ranch and the gates were locked. I was up on a ridgeline after daybreak waiting quietly under a tree when a fat guy on a quad comes up my ridgeline. I was more than pissed, not only was he in an area closed to motor vehicles, but he was off the established road just driving wherever he wanted. I should have plugged him at 150 yards with the bear claws I had loaded.

I hate to be this way, but the more I see, the more I think ATVs might need simply outlawed outright. Don't go flaming me saying "it's the driver not the ATV", it's just a discussion, but I am feeling that way more and more...

Here is a picture of me in the cold-assed hunt. I didn't get one, but my buddy did.

 

[DesertRose]

Many of the best trails are in washes. As long as you don't run over any veg, tortoises, or snakes, it probably isn't much harm.

Hmm, Chuck - I think you might have forgotten about just plain incursion into refuge areas (not wildlife refuges, but places where larger animals like deer, antelope, bears, and big cats go away from roads and trails, to feed, rest, have their young - and generally get away from us!).

We used to drive in washes (I'm not talking about legal roads and tracks that follow washes sometimes, but just driving straight up a wash that has no other purpose but to see where you can go) but after we realized this just wasn't kosher (let alone legal) we stopped. Also, we're sensitive to it because now we live in a place where people drive up our wash all the time and go around our No Trespassing signs and then some bozo tries to tell us that "washes in Arizona are legal rights of way." I finally figured out that this is a persistent untruth spawned by someone who confused the "navigable waterway" precedent with dry washbeds. Only two rivers in AZ qualify for this 150 year old law: Colorado and Verde. Not my wash! Gack!

Anyway, I think it's important to let folks know that it's not just about running over plants. It's about leaving SOME place for animals to get away from people. In mule deer country this is just plain impossible with ATVs crawling all around every wash into every part of their habitat.

I hate to be this way, but the more I see, the more I think ATVs might need simply outlawed outright. Don't go flaming me saying "it's the driver not the ATV", it's just a discussion, but I am feeling that way more and more...

Here is a picture of me in the cold-assed hunt. I didn't get one, but my buddy did.

Right on, Chuck! Look, a hunter who's WALKING-- OMG!!! My favorite recent slogan from Backcountry Hunters and Anglers (we're founding members): USE THE QUADS GOD GAVE YOU.

As for banning: no, as much as I agree, it is all about education, or we're just like other extremists (more fun, but less effective). That's why this thread here. Spread the word. It's not just about driving over plants.


Roseann

 

[DesertRose]

Also the pages in your link do not work,

I just tried it from Firefox and it worked. Not sure what the problem is.

It's http://www.azgfd.gov/outdoor_recreation/ohv_rules.shtml

Who knows the mysterious ways of the web....not me!

 

[Jonathan Hanson]

I'm with you, Chuck! (I use Bear Claws in the Rigby, too.)

You know how ranchers used to leave coyotes hanging over barbed wire fences as a warning? We could just . . .oh, never mind.

I'm convinced scientists are going to discover an emission put out by ATV engines that instantly lowers the IQ of the rider by 50 points. I've watched perfectly intelligent-looking people (some of whom I know personally) do idiotic stunts after climbing on board. With most activities--4x4s, mountain bikes--I'm willing to believe it's a small minority that makes the rest look bad. With ATVs I'm just not so sure. We have a no trespassing sign in the wash leading up to our house. Probably 9 out of 10 truck tracks turn around at the sign. But I estimate no more than 2 out of 10 ATV tracks do. The rest just go right around it until they hit the fence.

 

[Scott Brady]

I am all on board with the ATV issue... They are constantly getting hurt, lost, off the trail, out of gas, etc. They camo their ATV and loose it while off walking around, and requiring a rescue, etc.

The new models are incredibly capable, and have lockers, winches, independent suspension etc. Regular roads are just not a challenge anymore. This is the same issue I have with the trailered rock buggys. No trail I drive on will even require 4wd for them, so the have to create a new place to play, and the rest of us (and the environment) suffers.

That is why I keep coming back to licensing and education. To drive a rock buggy or motor cycle of ATV outside of an OHV area or private property it should be street licensed. That licence should include specific training on staying on trails, etc.

 

[Scenic WonderRunner]

Too many Fumes......

I agree that there are inconsiderate ATV'ers....and this should be a major concern. We also know there are MANY 4x4'ers with very bad manners.

But just as WE as 4x4 Explorer's do not want to be lumped in with the very bad form 4x4 dudes (sorry desertdude!....not you!...hehe) ....I don't know that we should just carelessly LUMP ALL ATV'ers into the same awful catagory. Maybe the "good" atv'ers could also help educate the bad ones?

Just as in life.....there are responsible folks.......and then there are folks who have breathed way too many fumes!

Disclaimer:........I have NEVER owned an ATV.........and NEVER plan to!

Here is a link to an ATV Explorer website I found. I'm not saying this is a wonderful group.....I don't know them.......I'm just sharing other opinion's in a constructive manner.

I found this ATV Explorers website listed at the BlueRibbonCoaltion

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


From their website:ATV Explorers LINK
About Us
We are a group of adventurous individuals with ATVs who enjoy traversing vast distances and visiting remote locations. We are seeking others with similar interests, and have created this website to show what's out there for those with the burning desire to explore and challenge themselves.

Our group is somewhat xenophobic in nature; we do not like crowds, and we go out of our way to avoid them -- far away from population centers. We are generally not interested in being a part of ATV Clubs, but we will support their efforts whenever possible, as we must all stick together if we are to keep public land open for public use.

Our exploits are all completely legal; we do not ride in areas that are off-limits or closed to the motorized vehicles. We do, however, ride in some remote and technically challenging areas that are similar to, and in many cases much more challenging than, the famed Rubicon and Fordyce Trails... the key difference is that there is virtually no chance of anybody else happening by to help if something goes wrong.

 

[pangaea]

That is why I keep coming back to licensing and education. To drive a rock buggy or motor cycle of ATV outside of an OHV area or private property it should be street licensed. That licence should include specific training on staying on trails, etc.

I agree wholeheartedly. While I'm not saying all motorbike and ATV owners are irresponsible, there certainly seems to be a disproportionately high amount of them.

I don't know if its the mindset of that demographic or if its just plain ignorance, but I think required education would go a long way. I know that many states require safety courses for hunting licenses, I sure wouldn't be opposed if the same thing was required for these equally lethal (in the wrong hands) pieces of equipment.

 

[Scott Brady]

I know there are ATV users who are very responsible, but they are also likely older, more educated, etc. It is the young and the restless that do most of the damage. If you require the vehicles to be licensed and training to be conducted it will greatly limit the damage.

Unfortunately, the Border Patrol are also a big issue with wildcat riding and destructive pursuits...

The real challenge is the shear number of new OHV users and the lack of club participation. I have never been on a club sponsored run where drivers behaved poorly. Some clubs do an excellent job of education and positive pressure.

I have driven on the trail with a "virtual" club in AZ where that was not the case. Very few people know each other and so it became a big contest, with high speeds, spinning wheels and broken parts.

I wish all new OHV'ers would become involved in a club. For example, the Copper State Cruisers are one of the best, with active trail clean-up efforts, etc.

 

[BajaTaco]

Poll: how many of you know that driving in washes in AZ is illegal?

I have to say that when I saw the title of this post, I became a little concerned because it implys that ALL motorized travel in washes is illegal. After reading your actual posts though, you go on to describe that there are exceptions (established, legal trails that utilize washbeds as thoroughfares). It's a great topic though, because I for one have always had mixed emotions about it and I think it's good for people to discuss it. As a backpacker and hiker, photographer, and wildlife fan, I have a profound appreciation for Arizona's washes and wildlife corridors, and watering holes. If you ever look for animal tracks, you can see what a cool place (and busy!) washes can be for wildlife. As a 4wd explorer, I have also enjoyed the challenge that is usually present when established trails go through sections of wash/creekbed. It often consists of spectacular canyon walls and challenging obstacles (the trail we run on the way to DeSoto mine, and also Box Canyon trail near Florence come to mind right away). I will say that there are tons of numbered (legal) trails in Arizona that cross through or travel in, watercourse terrain, so I think that we can enjoy those without having to tear up and impede on those that are wild and pristine. The great thing about washes is that when a flood comes along, it will scour and clean the tracks that your vehicle may have left behind, and even change the terrain itself where some vegetation and rocks and sand/gravel are concerned. The problem is when we cross that "no trace" line and we start to impact the habitat permanently - in a negative way.

I love that saying you posted "Use the quads God gave you" :xxrotflma

 

[luangwablondes]

In my college days at ASU, I used to go camping periodically. Parked in a wash and took a hike with friends. Came back to what should have been the campsite, no vehicles. Not a cloud in the sky and a flash flood relocated them out of sight. Now(also pilot), I don't drive in washes without checking weather 1st.

Went to Ethiopia in the Omo/Mago Park region. Had many rivers and washes to cross at the end of the rainy season. Came to a flooding river-again not a cloud in the sky- in an extremely remote part. Thought this was the end of the line for our plans. I don't like to backtrack, especially down difficult tracks. While discussing our options the river dropped and out from the otherside a few locals walked down out of the shade of the trees and crossed. Apparently rains in the mountains quickly turn into floods.

By the way, I think this would have qualified for an expedition.

Drive down washes, not if there is any....any chance of rain nearby.

 

[Jonathan Hanson]

We run into family groups of the, uh, Bud Light and tires-on-the-mobile-home-roof persuasion, out blasting around the desert in big circles on incredibly powerful and loud ATVs, while their children follow in complete miniature form: mini-ATVs, mini-leathers, mini-helmets.

I refer to the latter as "redneck larva."

 

[DesertRose]

Luangwablondes - very educational anecdotes - sobering, too. When we were in Baja a few years ago, rains up above Rosario created a huge flash flood that ran all the way down to the Pacific through one of the usually dry vados. Unfortunately, some campers had picked the spot to set up camp where the wash hit the ocean. It came at night, and I can't recall if 4 or 6 people died, some bodies never recovered. They recovered one camper in something like 12 feet of mud in the ocean.

Have you read David Read's autobiographical books Barefoot Over the Serengeti and Beating About the Bush ? He grew up in Kenya and northern Tanzania in the early part of the last century and his stories are fantastic. Every day of their lives qualified as an expedition! There are several hair-raising tales of torrents of water rushing across dry plains with not a cloud in the sky....

Having grown up in the desert, we are well aware of the dangers. Another good reason not to drive up washes, besides not harassing wildlife.


For those who are interested, David Read is still alive, in his 80s, and has this interesting website:
http://www.serengetimasai.com/index.html

 

[freightdog]

Hell, we do it all the time -

How would all the Navajo get home?

You gonna come out and build bridges -

Runnin washes is one of our favorite past-times!

Sorry, I don't really give two ********** about the environment - never been very politically correct..