Polluting vehicle restrictions in Europe
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Heading Out
Adventurer
This is what is ignored when EV's are called "Zero Emissions" and what about when all the new EVs reach the end of their lives
all those batteries have to be dealt with...
verdesard0g
Search and Rescue first responder
They will be recycled int new batteries which will probably take lots of energy and polution....
Heading Out
Adventurer
Exactly.... Zero Emissions is a marketing ploy
billiebob
Well-known member
And the 4 stroke outboard is a lie lol. Heads in the sand.
100 years ago electricy was equal to gas. Often preferred.
Delivery fleets definitely preferred electricity.
Even UPS had an electric fleet in 1935.
Until the 1960s electricity was the common cheap power for municipalities but then the oil industry kicked into high gear and lobbied like crazy to make diesel the only choice and cities lost blue skies and clean air. Finally, the wave is turning.
At the turn of the century the nay sayers were out in full force too rejecting the automobile as a fad, claiming the horse would show them up..... and here we go again.
100 years ago electricy was equal to gas. Often preferred.
Detroit Electric dedicated to the early electric car and my 1914 model 43 SEMA pictures
Detroit Electric Car company formerly the Anderson car company vintage electric cars 1914 model 43 electrical car with thomas edison battery SEMA pictures 2006
detroitelectric.org
Delivery fleets definitely preferred electricity.
Even UPS had an electric fleet in 1935.
Until the 1960s electricity was the common cheap power for municipalities but then the oil industry kicked into high gear and lobbied like crazy to make diesel the only choice and cities lost blue skies and clean air. Finally, the wave is turning.
At the turn of the century the nay sayers were out in full force too rejecting the automobile as a fad, claiming the horse would show them up..... and here we go again.
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Yup.
Electric vehicles are also dangerous for first responders, due to the high voltage and haz-mat concerns unique to electric vehicles...
ScottPC
Active member
When electric vehicles can be dialed in with even more efficient batteries and solar/wind power , then they'll be excellent for overlanding as fuel and maintenance will be minimized. Of course there will be several hurdles until that time comes...like water crossings and rainy seasons, but you've got to start somewhere.
Heading Out
Adventurer
I didn't say Electric didn't have a place, I said EVs are not zero emissions as is so often claimed.
The Diesel engine was designed to run on peanut and veggi oil.
Spark ignition engines can be run on ethanol or E85 (that many vehicles on the road today already can burn)
There are alternatives and they all have a place. our infrastructure is already set up to deliver liquid fuel
so we can modify it with little problem.
EVs have unique problems including fire after a crash from the batteries that burn very intensely.
Heading Out
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Lovetheworld
Active member
Wow, this is the dumbest/fastest topic derailment I have seen in a while.
I am reading several posts about petrol cars beating electric cars in racing applications, from a guy who drives a 6x6 equivalent of a coal power plant which will not make any speed, and would probably only beat a pedestrian in a race.
This is ridiculous.
Of course electric cars are not emission free. Especially not with an old fashioned power industry. If you have a mixture of gas power plants and solar/wind, they are cleaner.
Even the above is not relevant, this topic is about pollution zones, which exist, whether you like it or not.
And how to deal with it. Especially in Europe you have to take care, with many different zones and rules. Such an app is very welcoming!
I have also been overlanding in old 4x4 diesels. It had its advantages. However, I would not like to live in a city where only such old diesels would drive around.
People still can't figure out the difference between CO2 emissions (global warming) and poisonous emissions (NOx etc) which are bad for citizen health.
Oh hey, I just finished my battery system for our off-grid house, which features re-used lithium batteries from an electric car, which will allow me to charge our (soon to be bought) plug-in hybrid 4x4 most of the time (unless on a long holiday trip)
No need to recycle the electric car batteries, just reuse them.
I am choosing a plug-in hybrid 4x4 over diesel 4x4, as it allows us to drive a lot electrically in our home country, and on long trips still use petrol (as most electricity production in other countries is far from clean)
Bonus is that we can drive into any city in Europe.
Because these pollution zones will only get worse.
I am reading several posts about petrol cars beating electric cars in racing applications, from a guy who drives a 6x6 equivalent of a coal power plant which will not make any speed, and would probably only beat a pedestrian in a race.
This is ridiculous.
Of course electric cars are not emission free. Especially not with an old fashioned power industry. If you have a mixture of gas power plants and solar/wind, they are cleaner.
Even the above is not relevant, this topic is about pollution zones, which exist, whether you like it or not.
And how to deal with it. Especially in Europe you have to take care, with many different zones and rules. Such an app is very welcoming!
I have also been overlanding in old 4x4 diesels. It had its advantages. However, I would not like to live in a city where only such old diesels would drive around.
People still can't figure out the difference between CO2 emissions (global warming) and poisonous emissions (NOx etc) which are bad for citizen health.
Oh hey, I just finished my battery system for our off-grid house, which features re-used lithium batteries from an electric car, which will allow me to charge our (soon to be bought) plug-in hybrid 4x4 most of the time (unless on a long holiday trip)
No need to recycle the electric car batteries, just reuse them.
I am choosing a plug-in hybrid 4x4 over diesel 4x4, as it allows us to drive a lot electrically in our home country, and on long trips still use petrol (as most electricity production in other countries is far from clean)
Bonus is that we can drive into any city in Europe.
Because these pollution zones will only get worse.
Regcabguy
Oil eater.
What was their range back then? Could they service rural areas? I'm in San Diego. I couldn't imagine getting stuck in LA looking for a charger. Even a 20 minute quick charge gets you to Santa Barbara. Now what? If I'm staying in a hotel with 50+ other occupants and vying v for maybe 10 chargers,what next? Do the same thing day in and day out? Doesn't sound like much of a vacation.
If we can accomplish exchangeable batteries or 5 minute recharges we'll have a viable product. Homeowners with their own chargers and urban use with maybe an occasional drive in the country sure. Put 4 peeps in there going uphill with the A/C on and the range plummets. The hybrids are the best thing going now until battery technology gets out of the stone age. How about making them roomier for a tall guy like me while you're at it too?
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That's not my only vehicle, and I don't race my truck- I always try to use the correct tool for the job at hand:
billiebob
Well-known member
Audi developed a shock absorber which used electric resistance and generated electricity as you drove. Add a solar roof in place of a sunroof. Regen on deceleration is old school. AC in electric vehicles today uses a heat pump, and it does winter heat too, way more efficiently than AC in a pickup. There are soo many options once you get past the closed mind set of thinking why it cannot be done.
As for finding a charger, Canada is about to mandate all gas stations also offer fast charging for electric vehicles. We are at that point where the public is demanding it and our governments are passing legislation to bring electric vehicles into the main stream. But there is also the option of making every parking meter a charger. Never actually having to stop to charge up. Or a charging rail along the Interstate, drive forever without stopping.
Make vehicles lighter, more efficient...... that is long overdue. The government tried with CAFE and a bunch of other taxes but the days of an F350 being a family vehicle are limited. Expect plenty of incentives over the next 10 years to make the pure electric vehicle the standard. And public acceptance is growing fast especially with the success of the electric bicycle.
Its coming but it takes a positive mind set to get there.
As for finding a charger, Canada is about to mandate all gas stations also offer fast charging for electric vehicles. We are at that point where the public is demanding it and our governments are passing legislation to bring electric vehicles into the main stream. But there is also the option of making every parking meter a charger. Never actually having to stop to charge up. Or a charging rail along the Interstate, drive forever without stopping.
Make vehicles lighter, more efficient...... that is long overdue. The government tried with CAFE and a bunch of other taxes but the days of an F350 being a family vehicle are limited. Expect plenty of incentives over the next 10 years to make the pure electric vehicle the standard. And public acceptance is growing fast especially with the success of the electric bicycle.
Its coming but it takes a positive mind set to get there.
That sounds like a lot more than just "a positive mind set". That sounds like the government using my tax dollars to try to force people to use electric vehicles because it won't happen naturally...
Lovetheworld
Active member
Yes I also have a classic MR2 next to our 4x4 diesel.
But you also post a Prius on a race track. And a Model 3 next to an RS6.
The big news should be that there are now commuter cars almost as fast as an RS6.
This Model 3 is sold a lot, it is very fast, yet it can be the most efficient car on the road.
And guess what, if you drive around on the street, do you see everybody racing? Is everybody using their car on the race track?
No, people are getting from A to B. An electric car will do that far better, more efficient and more comfortable.
Here in Europe we have lots of normal cars also in diesel. And even these new cars smell like hell.
Getting stuck in a traffic jam in a tunnel around Amsterdam is the worst, even though there are many new cars.
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