Power plant change...
- Thread starter stevenmd
- Start date
ntsqd
Heretic Car Camper
I'm in the same boat, looking at various candidates for an engine swap. Being that you're in NorCal you also have to keep in mind what the donor vehicle is or would have been. Since the vehicle question isn't a Heavy Duty truck (3/4 ton or greater) if the engine wasn't sold in this state in a Light Duty truck (1/2 ton or smaller) or car then it will not be a legal swap.
Also be advised that any OBD II vintage engine ('96 or newer) has to be swapped as-is. You can not change any of the emissions equipment for something that clears the frame rail etc. even if it does the same function. If it did not come on that engine or have an E.O. number for that donor vehicle then it is not a legal part to use. I ran into this with an LS1/4L60E/D300 swap into a YJ. The right side cat, mounted to the exhaust header's outlet, did not simultaneously clear the frame rail and the front drive shaft. The universal cat that we installed in it's place did not fly with the BAR Referee. Eventually I was able to subtly alter the tube between the header flange and the cat to gain the clearance needed. We were fortunate in that K&N offered an FIPK for the Trans-Am donor, and that solved a big problem with the intake. OBD II regs start at the first sensor in the intake tract, end at the last O2 sensor in the exhaust, and completely contain the fuel system.
Based on my admittedly limited driving experience with my FJ60 I am looking at a swap for a gain in mileage. Extending the range on the stock fuel capacity, increasing available power, and improving emissions are my prime considerations. I have no intention of worrying about paying off the swap costs with the difference in mileage. That aspect of the conversion was never considered.
Also be advised that any OBD II vintage engine ('96 or newer) has to be swapped as-is. You can not change any of the emissions equipment for something that clears the frame rail etc. even if it does the same function. If it did not come on that engine or have an E.O. number for that donor vehicle then it is not a legal part to use. I ran into this with an LS1/4L60E/D300 swap into a YJ. The right side cat, mounted to the exhaust header's outlet, did not simultaneously clear the frame rail and the front drive shaft. The universal cat that we installed in it's place did not fly with the BAR Referee. Eventually I was able to subtly alter the tube between the header flange and the cat to gain the clearance needed. We were fortunate in that K&N offered an FIPK for the Trans-Am donor, and that solved a big problem with the intake. OBD II regs start at the first sensor in the intake tract, end at the last O2 sensor in the exhaust, and completely contain the fuel system.
Based on my admittedly limited driving experience with my FJ60 I am looking at a swap for a gain in mileage. Extending the range on the stock fuel capacity, increasing available power, and improving emissions are my prime considerations. I have no intention of worrying about paying off the swap costs with the difference in mileage. That aspect of the conversion was never considered.
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stevenmd
Expedition Leader
I am putting it into a pre-smog vehicle so I'm not sure how it would be an illegal swap.
stevenmd
Expedition Leader
I got to admit that all this chatter about California has me be-fuddled.
I can see no reason why if would matter if you stuck a International Diesel in that truck, or a Hemi!
I don't see how Chip Foose or Boyd Coddington (both based in California) have been able to modify and customize cars and drive them around for years and years in California with no problem, and just because we have Land Rovers ... it seems an issue!
What gives?
Thanks
Dendy
I can see no reason why if would matter if you stuck a International Diesel in that truck, or a Hemi!
I don't see how Chip Foose or Boyd Coddington (both based in California) have been able to modify and customize cars and drive them around for years and years in California with no problem, and just because we have Land Rovers ... it seems an issue!
What gives?
Thanks
Dendy
James86004
Expedition Leader
I don't know how loud a diesel is, but I can tell you how quiet the Vortec V8 is. At least in my 06 Silverado. I have the 5.3 liter aluminum block version. I listen to a lot of audio books on my Palm Centro. I can easily hear the books over the speaker on it while it is sitting on my center console and I am driving around Tucson, accelerating from 0 to 45 mph frequently. I can't say the same for my wife's Volvo.
It used to be real quiet traveling down the freeway, too. Then one day I opened the door in a 95 mph wind and it bent the hinges slightly. Now there is a fair amount of wind noise on the freeway.
James
ntsqd
Heretic Car Camper
I misunderstood. I thought it was going into the RRC for some reason.
Dendy, the reason is that HD trucks have looser emissions requirements and the CARB (those wonderful folks who brought you the easily spilled but won't vent fuel cans) is against essentially converting a LD vehicle (with it's attendant tighter emissions stds.) to a HD vehicle with an engine swap. Never mind that a new HD engine's "loose" stds are tighter than the LD engine that it is replacing. Nobody said the gumberment had to be logical or make sense.
stevenmd
Expedition Leader
Np, although I'd love to put a more fuel efficient (and powerful) engine in the rangie!:drool:
ntsqd
Heretic Car Camper
What kind of torque & HP numbers does the stock engine offer? What RPM's do those numbers happen at?
Even though the late model GM engines produce more torque & HP they do it at rpm's that are usually quite a bit higher than old school engines. Other than their diesels the big 3 seem to have forgotten that pick-up trucks are supposed to work. High HP, high rpm engines have replaced the more suitable high torque, low rpm engines of the past.
If keeping up with traffic is the goal then one of the LSx based engines is probably the answer. With it's higher output all of the downstream powertrain components will need to be looked at with a jaundiced eye.
For going slow over the rough stuff while having enough power to be reasonable in traffic, but not leading the stoplight Gran Prix, I think that a TPI or TBI SBC is the better choice. That choice will come with a slight mileage penalty, but I think that an engine best suited to the use should be the first consideration.
Even though the late model GM engines produce more torque & HP they do it at rpm's that are usually quite a bit higher than old school engines. Other than their diesels the big 3 seem to have forgotten that pick-up trucks are supposed to work. High HP, high rpm engines have replaced the more suitable high torque, low rpm engines of the past.
If keeping up with traffic is the goal then one of the LSx based engines is probably the answer. With it's higher output all of the downstream powertrain components will need to be looked at with a jaundiced eye.
For going slow over the rough stuff while having enough power to be reasonable in traffic, but not leading the stoplight Gran Prix, I think that a TPI or TBI SBC is the better choice. That choice will come with a slight mileage penalty, but I think that an engine best suited to the use should be the first consideration.
revor
Explorer
The Rangie!
427 Cobrajet Windsor Small block, C6 and an Atlas. You can run tall gears to keep the r's down.
Give me a call I'll tell you how to keep everything else from breaking.
But I'm not being helpfull. A SBC of any type (the new ones are great!!!) 4x4 version of a 700r4 and a Dana18 T case. Simple and a proven conversion.
427 Cobrajet Windsor Small block, C6 and an Atlas. You can run tall gears to keep the r's down.
Give me a call I'll tell you how to keep everything else from breaking.
But I'm not being helpfull. A SBC of any type (the new ones are great!!!) 4x4 version of a 700r4 and a Dana18 T case. Simple and a proven conversion.
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stevenmd
Expedition Leader
Well, back to this engine... add an Allisport Intercooler for an additional 50HP... dang, so many friggin' options. I think the path of least resistance is the 200TDI with it's mated auto tranny from a UK disco...:chef:
greenmeanie
Adventurer
An oldie but a goodie. Built to go in my 109. Not nearly as cheap to do as a 350 but everyone has one of those.
Dammit the image host won't resize this pig. Sorry for the huge picture.
TeriAnn
Explorer
I'm surprised that you were actually able to recoup the costs. Back in '99 then I ran the numbers for the cost of a fresh diesel vs cost of a fresh US small block V8, mileage and the price differential of diesel fuel vs regular petrol I never found a break even point from fuel savings withing 250K miles.
Fresh appropriate power level , size, weight wide reving diesel engines are quite expensive in the US.
TeriAnn
Explorer
In the state of California, the vehicle must meet the emissions requirement for the engine or the vehicle, whichever is newer.
Also when considering a 200tdi, don't forget the manifolds are quite different between Disco and Defender versions of the engine. The Disco version puts the turbo slightly inside the 109 frame rail and VERY close to the frame rail on an 88.
stevenmd
Expedition Leader
Hi TeriAnn, I was wondering when you were going to chime in. I have scoured your website many times over. I have spoken in great depth with Mark Pilkington about the 200Tdi. It seems like the path of least resistance but I am still debating whether or not it will have enough power to scoot a fully loaded 109 down the US highways. We are a family of 7.:ylsmoke: