Project RISTA: 109 IIA Build

[JKrawler]

Hello everyone, I've been clicking around on expedition portal for awhile now and I think it's time to start my build thread. I want to start off with thanking everyone already, there's lots of great info on this forum.

Rista is my family's 1967 109 3-door. It has been in-op for the last 8 years. The last year we've been talking about getting it running considering all options from just engine work to full restorations. After carefully considering what we want from the rover, our intended purposes, rover qualities we could live with and others we couldn't ect, we have decided on a full powertrain swap. I guess I should have a disclaimer warning uber rover purists haha, consider yourself warned?

Our intentions with Rista will be to make it dependable, comfortable, and safe enough for daily use. It's going to see lots of time in the rocks in Az and the Sierra Nevadas, summer backpacking trips across the west and winter trips to Tahoe. We don't want any problems getting over mountain passes (Sonora pass is always fun) loaded with gear or conversely stopping for deer in the road at night.

We also don't want to lose any of the classic rover charm. When all is said and done we intend to make it difficult to tell anything this major was done, at least from the outside. The rover will sit a little higher on 33's, but other than that it will appear mostly stock. Sound good?

Here's how the build is looking so far but as you know things tend to change daily:

4.3 Vortec V6
NV3550 5-speed manual
Dual transfer case, np203 range box to series t-case or FJ60 t-case
FJ60 Axles with rear disc brake swap, haven't decided which lockers yet
Crossover hi-steer
Scout II power steering
Custom extended shock towers front and rear
Longer springs, probably chevy in back and the stock rears in the front
Snorkel
New OEM/type interior, lot's of undecideds here but I'm focusing on the powertrain right now. The Corbeau Moab seats keep catching my eye.
Some sort of roll over protection, undecided. Ideally the 3-point inertia belts we plan on will bolt into the roll cage.

We have also not yet decided on SOA or spring under. We 'only plan on 33's so we don't need much lift, however SOA would give us better ground clearances. We have to see how low of a lift we can achieve with SOA using flat springs. The decision for the dual transfer cases comes from our intention to push Rista offroad. We will have a bulletproof drivetrain with impressive articulation so it only seemed natural to compliment that with a super low crawl ratio.

As of this weekend we have the motor pulled from Rista and some body panels off for access. We have acquired all the major components so now we have to make everything fit 'hah.

My first question for you all, which t-case to use the rover or the fj60? I'm having a hell of a time figuring out which one is stronger. I'd like to keep the rover case cause the gear reduction is lower and I like the e-brake. It seems like people have run v8's with both so my v6 should be fine? If anyone knows please let me know, thanks. I'll try and keep this thread updated as we go.

NV3550 from a Jeep TJ

FJ60 Axles

NP203-This thing is a pig good thing were only using the range box!

Scout II Steering Box

 

[TeriAnn]

4.3 Vortec V6
NV3550 5-speed manual

If you wanted a five speed for a rock crawler I'm a little surprised that that you are going with the medium duty NV3550 and not the heavier duty NV4500. Most people tend to think of the nv3550 as being more of a light duty truck five speed. Their first gear is 4.01:1. The more robust NV4500 has a low range first of either 6.34:1 or 5.61:1. With stock Series axle gearing and transfercase this will get you in the area of 80:1 at the axle which is a very respectable rock crawling gear. You might consider spending your money on a stronger NP4500 instead of on a np203.

Dual transfer case, np203 range box to series t-case or FJ60 t-case

Your choices are basically LC, Advance Adapter's Orion, Dana13 (weakest of the bunch) and the Series box. Many people consider the B suffix & newer Series transfercases to be the strongest of the transfercases with that offset. Advance adapters have prototype adapters to allow LC owners to upgrade to a Series transfercase. It is a 2 adapter combination that will allow you to use most all popular heavy duty gearboxes with a Series transfercase. Matthew Jackson is doing the work on that conversion. He would be a good contact to help you adapt everything together using Advance Adapter parts. I think there is a version of the Orion available with a 4:1 low range. That can get you into some serious low range gearing.

Something you may have overlooked: The under the bulkhead crossmember. The front prop shaft passes fairly close over this crossmember. The farther back the transfercase front yolk sits the closer the propshaft sits to the under bulkhead crossmember. This means your propshaft is more apt to strike the crossmember when the suspension is articulating downwards which will result in R&P damage (ask me how I know). Add increased downward articulation ability to that and you might want to carry multiple spare diffs & a spare propshaft on the trail.

Regardless you will want to put a divot in the crossmember under the front propshaft if you move the tranfercase front shaft yolk to the rear. If you move it a lot to the rear and increase articulation you might need to go to the more radical solution of moving that crossmember rearwards a couple inches.


Just some thoughts. Glad to see you are taking a systems approach to your upgrade.

 

[SeaRubi]

welcome to ExPo! Sounds like a sweet setup. If you're already using toyota axles I would think that your parts selection for mating the NV3550 to a cruiser t-case is much higher than to the LR series t-case. With 33's and a V6, I don't think strength is an issue either way. Your weak link is going to be whatever custom goodies are needed to mate the transmission to the t-case.

Advanced Adapters makes an off-the-shelf NV3550 to Toyota kit. The guys at Inchworm can provide you a case in left or right hand drop.

http://www.inchwormgear.com/store/

cheers,
-ike

 

[JKrawler]

Dana 13 or Dana 18? I know the dana 18 has the right offset but it's not as strong and is really noisy. I know there are adapters for the np203 to the land cruiser case, not sure about the series case. I have to drop the series case and take a look at it. I'm assuming machining an aluminum adapter plate and the proper spud shaft should work, but again I have to look at it.

The orion is an option but its so damn expensive. Not that a doubler isn't, but this way we get 4 different transfer case options instead 2. Also the np203 was dirt cheap.

I chose the nv3550 because of it's size. I would have preferred the nv4500 but it would have required modifications to the bulkhead and shifter tunnel. Also with the doubler were looking at a very long setup. If we were running a 350 or 302 v8 I would have gone with a 4500.

I already assumed there will be crossmember mods, the extent to which I'll find out shortly.

I'll go back through everything and double check the nv4500 option.
Good call on everything teri, on top of things thanks.

 

[JKrawler]

Oh yea, I already have a FJ60 transfer case so it really comes down to what works best.

 

[TeriAnn]

Dana 13 or Dana 18?

Dana 18. For some reason I keep wanting to call it a 13.

Also the np203 was dirt cheap.

I chose the nv3550 because of it's size. I would have preferred the nv4500 but it would have required modifications to the bulkhead and shifter tunnel. Also with the doubler were looking at a very long setup.

Bulkhead modifications are fairly small & easier for someone good at sheet metal welding. Of course that also depends on if you centre the engine in the frame of leave it offset to the left.

The NV3550 will probably be plenty strong for the V6 & 33 inch tyres. I just personally have an aversion to using more drive train components than I need to. I'd jump at the NV4500 just to eliminate the 2 speed box and shorten the overall length of the gearbox/transfercase combination. The extra strength would just be a big plus. But that's just me and I've been known to do silly things to my Land Rover.

It appears you are asking advice about which drive train choices to make AFTER you made the choices, purchased the parts and have them in hand. Hard to present viable alternatives when stuff is already paid for and delivered.

 

[JKrawler]

Haha well I'm pretty set on the 3550, all my research has told me that it will be fine with the V6 and I like that no interior mods have to be done. I also like the 5th gear overdrive. Your right it doesn't have the first granny but thats what the doublers for. I think this is a good case of 'there's more than one way to skin a cat'. Either way this is good I like other perspectives.

The biggie question for me is the strength difference between the cruiser and rover t-cases. I picked up the cruiser t-case for 100 bucks from the same truck I pulled the axles from. It was a good deal and low miles so I figured mind as well, I can always sell it if I don't use it.

 

[TeriAnn]

The biggie question for me is the strength difference between the cruiser and rover t-cases. I picked up the cruiser t-case for 100 bucks from the same truck I pulled the axles from. It was a good deal and low miles so I figured mind as well, I can always sell it if I don't use it.

Not a big question when you have both in hand but do not have adapters for the Series box paid for and in hand. Both are plenty strong for your application and the Advance Adapter's Series transfercase adapter set adds 6 inches.

As for the bulkhead mods. The bulkhead tunnel opening in mine is 1 inch taller than stock and 3 inches wider to the right side. The yellow knob sits on the top flat instead of on the diagonal side near the top. The stock tunnel cover fits about 1/2 inch short on each side and a new hole for the yellow knob lever. Stock size floor mat on the left side, I cut 3 inches off the outside mat edge to fit the right mat. Nobody notices a difference in the tunnel area unless I point it out. The mods in my bulkhead are for a Ford 302 and T-18 soon to be swapped for a NP-435. The T-18, Series transfercase with Ashcroft high ratio & 4.7:1 R&P gives me a 70:1 low first and 65 MPH cruise at 2650 RPM.

 

[JKrawler]

Not a big question when you have both in hand but do not have adapters for the Series box paid for and in hand. Both are plenty strong for your application and the Advance Adapter's Series transfercase adapter set adds 6 inches.

As for the bulkhead mods. The bulkhead tunnel opening in mine is 1 inch taller than stock and 3 inches wider to the right side. The yellow knob sits on the top flat instead of on the diagonal side near the top. The stock tunnel cover fits about 1/2 inch short on each side and a new hole for the yellow knob lever. Stock size floor mat on the left side, I cut 3 inches off the outside mat edge to fit the right mat. Nobody notices a difference in the tunnel area unless I point it out. The mods in my bulkhead are for a Ford 302 and T-18 soon to be swapped for a NP-435. The T-18, Series transfercase with Ashcroft high ratio & 4.7:1 R&P gives me a 70:1 low first and 65 MPH cruise at 2650 RPM.

Good to know thanks.

 

[Antichrist]

Dana 18. For some reason I keep wanting to call it a 13.

That's ok, it goes with the yolks.

 

[TeriAnn]

That's ok, it goes with the yolks.

Oh Geeeezzz now I really do have egg on my face

 

[Yorker]

The NV3550 is rated for ~300 ft/lbs torque and GVW of 7200 lbs, I thought that would be nice for a LR. It definitely will shift nicer than a NV4500 or one of the old truck 4 speeds.

I think I'd bite the bullet and use an Orion though. I suppose you could use a LT230 too.

The FJ60 axles are a nice way to go.

 

[Wander]

Heretics! :elkgrin:

(this said by a guy with painted over cappings, 69 Firebird bucket seats-don't ask and an electric fuel pump...)

 

[Root Moose]

Why a 4.3 V-6?

If you are going to bother spending this much time/money then put in a decent engine. A modern GenIV 4.8 or 5.3 GM V8 if you are a GM person; Ford 5.0 is decent too - I'd take it over a 4.3 any day.

Not a fan of the NV4500. If you think the NV3550 won't be strong enough with a small V8 then consider an Aisin AX15 or NSG370.

http://www.novak-adapt.com/knowledge/transmission_gateway.htm

$0.02, YMMV

 

[Alaska Mike]

That is going to be one long drivetrain. Are you going to run a rear driveshaft, or just go direct-drive?

I really liked the 4.3L as an option, and was very close to going that route. Just couldn't find one that wasn't completely dead for a somewhat decent price at the time.

I'm kinda with TeriAnn on this one, as I would keep the drivetrain as simple as possible. I like the shifting characteristics of the NV3500 (compared to a true truck transmission), but I'd prefer a granny 1st in a rock crawling rig. Coupled with a 3:1 or 4:1 transfercase, you'd have a respectable crawl ratio in a short (and simple) package.

I chose the Spicer 18 over the other options because of how compact I could make the total package with readily-available adapters. The Novak Spicer 18 to SM465 adapter was 1/2" long, which made the combo about the same length as the stock items. Even if it had been available at the time, the Advance Adapters mixture of adapters would have come out much longer- room I didn't have to spare without significant frame modifications.

The Spicer 18 is a bit noisier than the other transfercases, but I offset this by rebuilding it with a Novak kit (including their intermediate shaft). I may run a synthetic oil in it to try to reduce the noise even more, but I'm not there yet.

In your case, I would either look at the Orion or the Toyota case. From what I understand, you're planning on running NV3500/adapter/doubler/adapter/transfercase. From everything I've heard, the Rover T-case would add another adapter in there, further increasing the length.

If you're going hardcore rock crawler and are planning on changing sping lengths anyway, I would just ditch the Rover springs completely and go with something a little more supple and readily available- especially if you decide to go spring-over. I hope the frame is good shape.

Looks like a great project.