Prospective 3rd gen Montero buyer: specific questions about a few issues

[96LTDrus]

EDIT: please see latest post on next page in regards to a specific truck I'm checking out!

Hello Mitsu folks,

I don't mean to litter your board with threads like this, but I'm well along my way into the hunt for a clean 3rd gen, and have a few specific questions that I was not able to find with a search. I'm basically preparing myself for all of the repairs and deferred maintenance that a used Montero will need. I've heard the usual stuff about the 4wd solenoids, valve cover leaks, 2nd row seat latches.

Here are somethings that I'm still curious about:

1) I've test driven 3 Montero Limiteds so far, a '02, an '03, and an '06. All of them seemed to have some sort of driveline vibration at 45+mph speeds. A constant sort of rumble. Now, I've heard of torque converter lockup valve issues that cause TC shudder, and the '06 I drove had this. But the other two just had something that felt like an out of balance driveshaft(?). Can anyone shed any light on what this might be? This is my top concern repair wise, I hope these aren't all symptoms of transmissions on their last legs!

2) How fussy is the independent suspension, alignment and longevity wise? I LOVE how these drive, but man I priced out some control arms just as a hypothetical situation and this stuff adds up! I've read about camber bolts freezing up in northern locales as well. Additionally, I watched a Russian used car review where they claimed that while the IRS seems to be trouble free even when used a lot offroad, the front end will need upper and lower control arms at around 100-130k miles, especially if used offroad. Does the alignment get knocked out of wack from offroading?

3) How many of you have had the temp gauge or fuel gauge go wonky? I've heard of a fix involving resoldering a few resistors, but how common is this issue?

4)Are valve stem seal leaks a thing on the newer 3.8 trucks as they get up in miles? How many of you guys with higher mileage have replaced yours? if not, how much oil does the truck use between changes?

Thanks all! I'm definitely ready for something newer, roomier, and more road trip friendly after my '96 4Runner!

 

[96LTDrus]

Anyone?

 

[montypower]

1) not an issue. BTW. driveline is composite carbon fiber mesh thing. Pajero guys overseas remove the brick hanging off the rear of the tcase to resolve vibration. I had to remove mine to clear the skids. Seems to lessen the vibration. Either way, not an issue and common on all the trucks at certain RPM. I don't notice it on mine anymore.

2) You can replace the control arm bushings (aftermarket options - nothing from dealer). Front will wear faster. Rear has larger components. Mine has been great in the rear. Front is showing wear after 111k miles and 21k of hard off road miles. So I'm replacing everything. Alignment hasn't been an issue except 3 days of rock crawling (Rubicon Trail) did mess it up. I love independent suspension and probably have used mine harder than anyone in the US. Toured off road through Washington, Montana, Wyoming, California, Oregon... been through Canada. And drove the transamerica trail stock across from Georgia.

3) Mine has been fine. You can also replace cluster from the dealer for $200-300. Not a big deal.

4) Yes, you'll have heads showing wear. I rebuilt mine at just over 90k and guides were getting worn. Refresh really brought back the motor performance! But most will run to 200k without rebuild (performance slowly decreases). Oil useage is much less of an issue with 3.8L. You may get leaks though... rear cam seal and rear main (mine both failed).

No contest. For a comfortable, capable, spacious SUV this truck fits the bill. Plus great travel range. I can do over 400 miles fully loaded on the road. These trucks are getting older so plan to replace wear items and don't be surprised as parts do wear out. They are extremely well built trucks. Mine keeps performing and amazing me.

 

[96LTDrus]

Thanks montypower! That's what I've heard about the driveshaft. I'm still wondering what the vibes on all of these trucks that I've driven is, it's definitely not something minor or only at certain RPMs, it's a very distracting 'rumbling.' For comparison, my relatively cruder and rougher '96 4Runner drives much smoother/vibration free on a smooth road surface with no noticeable vibes from the drivetrain or wheels. Has anyone else come from some other vehicle to a used higher mileage 3rd gen and noticed these vibrations? I can't imagine that sort of vibration on the truck straight from the factory, surely potential buyers would be taken aback!

 

[montypower]

Well you could have other vibration going on for sure. Tires or worn bushings. That RPM specific vibration about 45mph is related to the rear dampening block. I don't notice it now after removing the block. Your diffs, transmission are all on bushings. These can get worn and transfer vibration. I've rebuilt both diffs and replaced all the bushings. Can't really say there was any noticeable change though.

If it is as you describe it is not something to be concerned with and easily resolved.

 

[96LTDrus]

Hmm, this feels stronger than simply a worn bushing transferring more energy from a differential, but maybe that's what it is. Here's a telling description from one of those used carlot test drive guys on youtube that's dealt with a fair amount of used 3rd gens at auctions and on his lot: "...Lots of Issues with the 4WD, lots of transmission issues, Oil Leaks, driveshaft vibrations on higher mileage ones." That's exactly what it felt like, on all three that I've driven. Again, this guy might be thinking the same thing in terms of mis-diagnosing the issue, but the sensation is like that of a driveline-sourced issue. I wish I could simply find someone local with a 3rd gen in excellent repair that I could try driving and see exactly what a properly sorted Montero should drive like.

 

[montypower]

Fly out to Oregon and you can drive mine.

I can tell you, if it feels like the driveshaft it isn't. They are like nothing you've ever seen before. Nearly no angle on them too. That sounds like a crazy generic description. "lots of 4wd and transmission issues" what does that even mean? Sounds like someone who doesn't know what they are talking about.

I'd buy one out of state away from the rust.

 

[Sabre]

If the driveline has ever been out of the vehicle, a u-joint may have been installed out of phase. That happened to one of my ambulances and the vibration was startling. Of course, tires can (and frequently do) yield the exact symptoms you describe.

As for what the used car lot guy said, bear in mind a few things. First, what vehicles end up at auction? Ones that people have traded in, thereby self-selecting for vehicles that tend to have more problems. Second, "lots of issues with the 4WD" refers to just two or three very, very simple issues that are inexpensively fixed; they have nothing to do with the robustness and capabilities of the system. As for the transmission issues, I don't know what he's talking about at all. Oil leaks? Sure, some, not all, and nothing more than you'll find on any other vehicle. My wife's 2004 Volvo has had more leaks than my 2001 Montero.

I recently returned from 11 days off pavement, most of it on rough washboard, some deep sand, mud, jagged volcanic rock on sphincter-puckering grades. Have done such trips many times. Enough to cause an aluminum roof rack to self-destruct from the vibrations. Nothing on the Montero breaks, nothing squeaks, nothing rattles. It just goes. Sure, you replace the wear items. The constant theme is that of other folks with modified vehicles expressing surprise at what the Montero can do. Honestly, I carry a ton of tools and emergency supplies, but have only ever used them to help others.

 

[96LTDrus]

If the driveline has ever been out of the vehicle, a u-joint may have been installed out of phase. That happened to one of my ambulances and the vibration was startling. Of course, tires can (and frequently do) yield the exact symptoms you describe.

As for what the used car lot guy said, bear in mind a few things. First, what vehicles end up at auction? Ones that people have traded in, thereby self-selecting for vehicles that tend to have more problems. Second, "lots of issues with the 4WD" refers to just two or three very, very simple issues that are inexpensively fixed; they have nothing to do with the robustness and capabilities of the system. As for the transmission issues, I don't know what he's talking about at all. Oil leaks? Sure, some, not all, and nothing more than you'll find on any other vehicle. My wife's 2004 Volvo has had more leaks than my 2001 Montero.

I recently returned from 11 days off pavement, most of it on rough washboard, some deep sand, mud, jagged volcanic rock on sphincter-puckering grades. Have done such trips many times. Enough to cause an aluminum roof rack to self-destruct from the vibrations. Nothing on the Montero breaks, nothing squeaks, nothing rattles. It just goes. Sure, you replace the wear items. The constant theme is that of other folks with modified vehicles expressing surprise at what the Montero can do. Honestly, I carry a ton of tools and emergency supplies, but have only ever used them to help others.

I knew the quote would be over-analyzed, this was just the video description by some clueless guy on youtube, but it perked my ears up because he implied that driveline vibrations are a common issue. As you explained it, and as I am well aware, the 4wd issues are simply some fairly cheap/easy solenoid issues, the transmission issues are probably the torque chatter associated with old or incorrect fluid, and oil leaks refers to the valve cover gaskets, another easy fix. But add it all up and to the unacquainted layman, it seems like one of these neglected trucks is just full of issues. Again, I'm just gathering info on the driveline stuff, the rest of the things don't bother me. Well, parts cost/availability does a bit. Also, just how vulnerable are those rear heater tubes?

I'm looking at another similarly used Montero in town next week, an '04 Limited with 148k and a one owner carfax, but two reported accidents I'm going to take it on a longer drive and feel out this vibration a bit better. No intent of buying this thing, at least not for the price they're asking for.

 

[96LTDrus]

montypower,

I did some more googling around (seaerching for "Pajero NM vibration") and as you mentioned, a lot of guys in Oz have had luck with removing that harmonic damper, and judging by the loads of threads on the matter, what I've seen in used Monteros is in fact that "2100rpm vibration" that everyone is talking about. In fact, Mitsubishi dealerships consider it an actual factory-authorized fix. Fascinating stuff. I wonder if I can stealthily remove this damper on my next test drive...

 

[dam7106]

so... Have you found the monty that fits you yet?

 

[96LTDrus]

so... Have you found the monty that fits you yet?

Updating this thread now, actually I might be sort of close. I test drove an '04 that was a trade in to the local Nissan dealer, and so far it's checking out okay. Not rust free by any means, but much less than some others I've looked at, no oil leaks either (not from the valve covers at least). 4WD was having some issues going into 4HLC (blinking lights) but after a bit of back and forth it started engaging smoothly. I've actually been talking to Swank Force One on here, he lives nearby and is very graciously letting me test drive his California-fresh Limited so I can see what a "correct" Montero should drive like. My biggest concerns with this 04 is underbody rust that may be hiding under body cladding or out of sight elsewhere. Also, I thought it was a bit odd how the RPMs seemed a tad high on the highway, 2500 at 65mph, for comparison (apples to oranges I know) my '96 4Runner sits at 2500rpm at 70 mph. Just something I want to confirm is normal. Likewise this truck has the usual 'vibes' from about 1900rpm-2200, sounds like it's the typical transmission counter-weight harmonics that can be addressed simply enough. I'm going back tonight and they said they'd throw it up on a lift for me, I'll be checking the rear main seal area for leaks, and the state of the rear air conditioning lines (and/or heater tubes?).

Any additional input on what to check is appreciated! Maybe a checklist?

rust
Valve cover leaks - none found
Rear main leak
CV boot condition
rear heater and A/C lines
Suspension tightness (shaking suspended wheels nice and good?)
2nd row seat latch mechanism
temp/fuel gauge operation- seems fine
Power accessories - driver's side seat heater does not work on "high" setting

On the drive:

vibrations - the usual harmonics due to worn mounts, fixed with damper/balancer removal
transmission- seems to shift fine and no chatter, but high highway rpms(?)

Other things to look out for???


More on the gearing. With 30.6 inch diameter tires (265/70R16), a 4.3:1 rear end ratio, and a 5th gear overdrive of .73, I think the truck should be going 72.5mph before it hits 2500rpm... so, could this one be not locking up the torque converter? Maybe it was because it hadn't warmed up yet? Dropping the Select-shift into 4th confirmed on the dash going from 5->4 and the rpms went up accordingly. I'll try to drive it a bit more in the next few days to confirm. Using the same math, 65 mph is 2241 rpm so I guess it's not far off, assuming a bit of speedometer and tachometer error. Might be a non issue after all.

 

[clmrt]

Go over the 156-point inspection line-by-line. Check the air filter. Squeaky HVAC blower motor. Leaky / seized calipers. E-brake working. Power seat, all windows. Rear driveshaft is a composite unit and must not have a scratch on it.

 

[96LTDrus]

A further update on my search here locally. Went and looked at a higher mile (154k) '05 Limited on the north side of town today at lunch. Kind of a shot in the dark, I wasn't expecting much. This one is the least rusty one I've seen so far I think, just some very beginnings of bubbling on the rear inner fender lips, and the mounts of the running boards had a fair amount of surface rust. Paint was decent, fair amount of nicks and scratches in the paint, the rear bumper had been resprayed at some point, but the paint match was decent. Transfer case functioned 100% first try, including 4LLC when the truck was put in neutral. Seat heater damn near burned my butt. Interior looked pretty clean. Drove pretty well, I thought it was a tad harsh/stiff, I'm sure with 154k the shocks and struts have seen better days. Tires were pretty well shot so it was howling away driving down the highway, but no weird vibrations. Got back from the drive and popped the hood, valve cover gaskets are okay, the passenger side one was starting to weep and had a hint of burning oil smell, but that isn't anything scary. The asking on this one is $6500, vs $8500 for the lower mile but rustier '04. I dunno, I guess I liked it but I'm not compelled to jump on it either. I'd be trading in my daily driver '12 Civic so the thought of swapping out an efficient and 100% trouble free new-ish car on a 10+ year old SUV that will need a bunch of maintenance rubs me a bit in the wrong way. If I found the perfect truck condition wise, I wouldn't be hesitating anywhere as much I don't think.

 

[PHeller]

Thanks for posting this thread. I was actually wondering about some of the very same issues you were.

I could care less about suspension issues, shocks and springs are easy. I've heard a lot of comments about the Gen III doesn't ride as comfortable as Land Cruiser or Lexus of the same age and is generally "boomy" inside.

The valve stem seals and just general wear and tear on the heads concerns me a bit. These don't look like easy engines to replace the heads on.

Is the 3.5l in the 01-02 model years any more preferred over the 3.8l in the 03+?

I know the 01-02 has the hybrid LSD. 03+ has Traction Control.