Question about hydraulic systems on a series IIa

James86004

Expedition Leader
Yup got it in one.

After that I got to know Ernie over on Wetmore. Rover's are not something he does but he really helped out when I first brought my 101 over.

Oh, YOU are the one whose 101 is in a picture on his wall! He spoke very highly of you.

Ernie is great. He is the one who gets my 6 cylinder with the Z-S carb through emissions every year, then tunes it up so it will actually run.
 

Wander

Expedition Leader
Thanks for the lead, Steve. I heard back on the 66. The shop has two and the owner was taking about the other one that is a lot rougher than the 66 I was asking about. The 66 RHD IIa I spotted does not have the hydraulic issue.

I need to see both for myself to know for sure but from what I am seeing/hearing so far is the 66 and 67 IIa's are both being offered for the same price. The 66 was been well used but maintained and runs,stops, etc well. It was owned by a sportsman's lodge so it has some bumps and scrapes but overall it all looks to be there. Somewhere along the line a 4 headlight conversion was done which looked odd at first glance but I can see how this could be a good thing. The 67 is one of the late IIa's with the headlights on the wings-or the prior owner changed both the wings and the middle panel( the breakfast?) and it has OD and warn free wheeling hubs. I can see the seats where also swapped for new style high backs (with the country trim I think). This one does have the hydraulic issue so I could add the parts cost for that to the price right off. Do those features put the 67 over the 66 or does it not make a big difference overall? If any of you would like to check them out I could PM you the link. I can't figure out how to grab and post the pictures here. I would greatly appreciate any help you can offer.
 

Snagger

Explorer
If you're not in a rush, you can save a fair bit ordering the parts from the UK. For instance, £25 for the master cyl vs. $135 here in the US.
Drum work may or may not be needed, but it's good to at least factor it in as an expected cost. If it's not needed it's probably because the hub seals have let gear lube all over the insides, which would mean you would need new brake shoes. Some $$ can be saved by relining the shoes, if they are the riveted type vs bonded.

Be careful where you source them in the UK - Britpart hydraulic parts have a well established reputation for leaks, swarf and porosity.
 

Snagger

Explorer
If I bought it the one with brake/clutch issues, I would flush the systems with the proper fluid, clean the drums and backing plates, and then check periodically for leaks. Then all you would be out was a little hydraulic fluid.
That's what I'd do, too. Old genuine cylinders are often better than brand new pattern parts, and the wrong fluid might not have harmed anything anyway.
 

Wander

Expedition Leader
Thanks for the tip- I might be able to use the hydraulic issue as a bargaining chip and if the flush works that would be great. If the seals are damaged how obvious will the leak be? If the seals are not leaking when the truck is idle could they go when the system is running? I am wondering if the leak is slight enough that I miss something will I loose brakes going down the road-or even worse loose the brakes when I take my wife for a spin and thus loose all support for the project (not to mention bodily harm).
 

Alaska Mike

ExPo Moderator/Eye Candy
If it's leaking that bad (to make you lose brake pressure during a short ride), it will likely be obvious if you clean the areas around the master and slave cylinders. Internal leaks are obviously harder to see, but will be obvious if you have a filled, well bled system that still doesn't work. You could try a seal kit if the cylinders aren't worn. I've had some luck with that route, but since I run a lot of water I prefer to replace the cylinders.
 

Yorker

Adventurer
I've had good luck rebuilding the original cylinders. Someone mentioned Trevor at Rovah Farm- he is a great guy to get parts from and he can also source Automec Cunifer Brakelines pretty cheap. I used Automec brake lines on one 88" back in 1997 and haven't had to touch the hydraulics since then aside from the flex lines and a flush now and then.

I think if I were to do it again I'd do the same though perhaps rebuild/reline the original Girling wheel cyliders with stainless or brass sleeves kind of like how White Post does:
www.whitepost.com
 

greenmeanie

Adventurer
Do those features put the 67 over the 66 or does it not make a big difference overall? If any of you would like to check them out I could PM you the link. I can't figure out how to grab and post the pictures here. I would greatly appreciate any help you can offer.

Wander,
Given your skills description the general rule for buying a series should apply. Its all about te structural parts. Buy the one with the best chassis and bulkhead. Pretty much everything else is rebuildable.

The bolt on bits are nice if you are considering two equal trucks but the fundemantals are much more important.

Just post the link up if it is a commercial garage.
 

TeriAnn

Explorer
I am under no illusion that these are reliable trucks-it's British after all

Series trucks are as reliable as you are willing them to be. They are designed to have regular maintenance performed on them every 3000 miles (For many UK residents that could be once every half year or longer). If you follow the factory recommended maintenance schedule and replace everything that you see that is approaching out of spec instead of making do until catastrophic failure forces you to do some maintenance, they can be quite reliable with a couple exceptions. The exceptions being the 10 spline rear axle that tends to break between 40,000 and 50,000 miles of regular use and more frequently if the truck is used hard and the gearbox which is a little weak for the engine but can last a decade or two without failure or decide to break much earlier.

next, If you are going to become a Series owner you should learn to work on the truck yourself or have deep pockets to pay for that maintenance every 3000 miles. The hard part of the latter is that the factory trained Series mechanics are all retired and it is hard to find a modern mechanic who can even set points correctly.

If you are going to become a Series owner I recommend purchasing the owners manual as it has the recommended factory maintenance schedule and provides step by step instructions for doing the regular maintenance items.

I also recommend getting the white bible, volumes I and II. AKA the factory repair manuals. These take you step by step through the items the factory expected a professional mechanic to do, including rebuilding brakes. If you are not rushed to have the truck moving I suggest the brake project would be a good one to get your feet wet on. umm Literally, we don't want you standing in a puddle of brake fluid that leaked out :)

Assuming your steel brake lines are good, you should:
  • The first thing you want to do is drain and flush the system. Open the bleed screws at each of the wheel cylinders & clutch cylinder and let the fluid drain out. Blow them out with compressed air. Get a gallon of cheap alcohol and pour it through the system. Then blow the system clear again with compressed air.
  • Replace the master cylinder. These can be a real pain to rebuild properly and if you are not experienced it can be hard to tell if it is rebuildable.
  • Next you want to replace the rubber hoses. The three brake hoses and the clutch hose.
  • Before buying wheel cylinder parts you will want to open them up and inspect the bore of each to determine if they are rebuildable. Pull the drums all the way around. If there is oil you will need to replace the inner hub seal. If the brake shoes are worn or oil soaked put them on your shopping list. Make a drawing of where the springs go then remove the shoes. Open up the wheel cylinders and inspect the inside. The cylinder bores were polished inside, not honed so they should wipe clean without pitting or deep scratches. If you can not polish them clean replace them or have them sleeved. If you can polish them clean, rebuild them. A sleeved cylinder will virtually last forever so it is worth doing if you plan to own the truck long term. Go through the same process with the clutch slave cylinder.
  • Once you have everything reassembled fill and bleed the system. Since it is a virgin system you need to make the decision of fluid. You can use DOT 5 silicon based brake fluid or DOT 4 brake fluid (Castrol LMA). Which ever you choose you can not switch between the two without first flushing the system and replacing all the rubber including hoses and brake/clutch rubber seals. They can be a real pain to bleed and get all the air out. I strongly prefer pressure bleeding.

If the steel brake lines have rust, replace them. This can be a pain but a rust caused pinhole in a brake line can ruin your whole day very quickly. What you need to know is that the British use a different brake line fitting than the North Americans. They two types will thread into one another but a male US fitting will not set the the flare properly into a UK female fitting and a UK male fitting will set the flare seal with only a couple threads engaged into the North American female fitting. Make sure UK brake fittings are used at all connections.

My Series Land Rover has taught me more about mechanics than I ever expected or even wanted to know. But it is the price of long term ownership of a Series truck. Especially one you take out into the bush where you need to be able to take care of any problem in order to get it home or out to a place where a tow truck can reach.

Coiler Land Rovers in the US are almost all worn out and crushed before they reach 20 year of age. You youngest North American spec Series truck is 35 years old. Series trucks last because they are easy to work on and simple enough for the average person to learn how to work on them. But they do need the factory maintenance schedule followed if they are going to remain dependable. A series truck is a time and effort commitment that rewards you with more maintenance sessions. You need to become one with the 90 wt and grime if you are to become a long time Series owner.
 

I Leak Oil

Expedition Leader
Coiler Land Rovers in the US are almost all worn out and crushed before they reach 20 year of age. You youngest North American spec Series truck is 35 years old. Series trucks last because they are easy to work on and simple enough for the average person to learn how to work on them. But they do need the factory maintenance schedule followed if they are going to remain dependable. A series truck is a time and effort commitment that rewards you with more maintenance sessions. You need to become one with the 90 wt and grime if you are to become a long time Series owner.

While I agree with you to some extent I think you need to look at why a series land rover may last longer. Simple reasons really. They are worth the money and emotional gratification, most of the time, to fix. People put new, galvy chassis under them and throw all sorts of money at them to keep them running. Without this effort and expense most of our original series trucks would be piles of alumunum sitting on a stack of rust flakes, especially in the wet or snowy areas of the country.

As of today, a coiler just isn't worth the money or effort. It's easier just to find a nicer coiler. My guess is that will start to change over the next couple decades or so.

So I guess, yes, series seem to survive but they do need help to do so.
 

Antichrist

Expedition Leader
I wouldn't use Silicone based fluid. It's not hygroscopic and any moisture in the system will tend to "puddle" and increase the odds of corrosion. Series rover brakes don't get that hot so using castrol and flushing on schedule is fine.
I also prefer using something like brake-kleen to flush my brake lines. I know in theory the alcohol will evaporate, but I just can't bring myself to put something that's 30% or so water in my brake lines.
I always remove the flex lines before cleaning out the hard lines or replacing/rebuilding the wheel cylinders as I don't want any crud from them getting in to the clean hard lines or cylinders.
 

Wander

Expedition Leader
Thanks for the great write up Terri! I was thinking that a brake/clutch job would be the first thing I'd tackle which ever one I get. I still need to see these trucks as I really want to climb under and around them to look at the rust (I'm expecting there to be some and will be amazed if there is none) and look for built up crud in the areas several of you have mentioned.

I am planning to make this my project and do my own work. I mentioned having the shop do the hydro just so I could drive it home but that only applies to the 67 right now as the 66 I like does not have that problem.

The place I found these is; www.blueridgeroverworks.com. The 66 IIa RHD in bronze green and the 67 IIa LHD in the lighter "pea" green. (what is the correct name of that color?)
 

Wander

Expedition Leader
Sorry for the double post-here's some pictures, I've requested some of the chassis, bulkheads and engine.
 

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Wander

Expedition Leader
some more...
 

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