Questions About Shocks/Springs Ram 2500

[WILDPEAK]

...I have noticed neither Thuren or Carli show a loaded truck in the videos I have seen. Carli has a picture of a loaded truck setting in a parking lot.
Thanks.

Carli and Thuren do amazing work. I've been hinting to them both to do something for the guys with a loaded bed... Any one of us could go to a custom coil maker and shock tuner and get the job done, but how much time and money would it take an average Joe like to dial it in...

Carli and Thuren are experts at this stuff... they don't even have to buy another development truck, they just need to put about 1,500lbs in the bed and develop a killer suspension option for the overloader crowd!

Reviving this thread with my 2c...

 

[wfv56]

I couldn’t agree more. You buy a 3/4-1 ton truck so it can carry a load. Adding soft springs to improve the ride kill load capacity. Seems to be overlooked by our aftermarket suspension tuners. AEV mak a good product but I would like to see a larger shock for fully weighted truck.

 

[WILDPEAK]

I couldn’t agree more. You buy a 3/4-1 ton truck so it can carry a load. Adding soft springs to improve the ride kill load capacity. Seems to be overlooked by our aftermarket suspension tuners. AEV makes a good product but I would like to see a larger shock for fully weighted truck.

For sure AEV is working on the Bilstien 8100 XP Cargo remote resi shocks for the RAM HD platform, but still no release... I am considering sticking it out indefinitely until that release...

With regards to the springs, if I was AEV I wouldn't be so hung up on all the different OE springs configurations, I would make 1 or 2 longer coil spring options for the rear (no spacers), and 2 longer coil spring options for the front (gasser + CTD, again no spacers)... Maybe I'm over simplifying the needs/wants?

 

[jadmt]

For sure AEV is working on the Bilstien 8100 XP Cargo remote resi shocks for the RAM HD platform, but still no release... I am considering sticking it out indefinitely until that release...

With regards to the springs, if I was AEV I wouldn't be so hung up on all the different OE springs configurations, I would make 1 or 2 longer coil spring options for the rear (no spacers), and 2 longer coil spring options for the front (gasser + CTD, again no spacers)... Maybe I'm over simplifying the needs/wants?

I recently asked Dave about this (in October) and he said a firm negative on doing coils. he said it was far more complicated than what people think.

 

[Regcabguy]

Don says somewhere that he doesn’t recommend his coils if you are running a bumper or winch. Things may have changed in the last couple years so take it for what it is. The carli full pack is decent for carrying a load from what I have heard with guys hauling welders and such. That being said, Don seems to be very willing to answer any questions you may have and would be the best person to contact to help you out together a suspension package that will do what you need it to do.

He doesn't recommend them for anyone carrying a camper like my 2200# Northstar popup or a hardsided one. I had a pair of his 3" coils,Stage 3 Kings up front and 2's in the rear. They were just too soft for cornering in Utah and the Hwy 1 in the Big Sur area. Off road though they were superb.

 

[2manyprojects]

Thuren also doesn't recommend the torsion swaybar if you're carrying anything that increases COG substantially. It never gets mentioned, but the original press releases for the then new gen '19 Ram 2500s mentions that the OEM coil springs were designed as progressive rate springs. No aftermarket people mention this, but I'm confident that's at least part of what Dave at AEV is referring to when he mentions how complicated it is.

 

[WILDPEAK]

I recently asked Dave about this (in October) and he said a firm negative on doing coils. he said it was far more complicated than what people think.

Thanks for the info. I understand it's not worth the development effort for coils, I go through this with tires in my day job. It's complicated from RAM from the start because they are tuning coils for all of the different trims and truck lengths and weights (just think of the vehicle dynamic characteristics of a 2WD unloaded Tradesman 6.4L vs a Laramie Longhorn Cummins 4x4... ).

Thuren, Carli, BDS, Pure Performance, tons of companies making longer coils, they only differentiate between gas and diesel, because the average Joe can't appreciate or notice the fine tuning that a vehicle manufacturer does.

My guess without talking to Dave is that he/AEV are choosing not to make "standardized" coils in order to preserve the ride tuning from the factory, which makes particularly good sense for a Prospector sitting on the dealer lot.

The reality though is many folks on this forum are using the RAM 2500 platform for expedition-style trips, utilizing payload, and would appreciate a robust suspension package with a good blend of articulation, dampening without fade, and payload. I don't think such a package is available on the aftermarket at this time...hence the discussion.

 

[WILDPEAK]

Thuren also doesn't recommend the torsion swaybar if you're carrying anything that increases COG substantially.

Power Wagon front disco is hard to beat

 

[nater]

Thanks for the info. I understand it's not worth the development effort for coils, I go through this with tires in my day job. It's complicated from RAM from the start because they are tuning coils for all of the different trims and truck lengths and weights (just think of the vehicle dynamic characteristics of a 2WD unloaded Tradesman 6.4L vs a Laramie Longhorn Cummins 4x4... ).

Thuren, Carli, BDS, Pure Performance, tons of companies making longer coils, they only differentiate between gas and diesel, because the average Joe can't appreciate or notice the fine tuning that a vehicle manufacturer does.

My guess without talking to Dave is that he/AEV are choosing not to make "standardized" coils in order to preserve the ride tuning from the factory, which makes particularly good sense for a Prospector sitting on the dealer lot.

The reality though is many folks on this forum are using the RAM 2500 platform for expedition-style trips, utilizing payload, and would appreciate a robust suspension package with a good blend of articulation, dampening without fade, and payload. I don't think is available on the aftermarket at this time...hence the discussion.

I think carli makes an heavy rear spring for the 2500... not a frequently discussed option

 

[WILDPEAK]

I think carli makes an heavy rear spring for the 2500... not a frequently discussed option

Actually I had these Carli springs on my 2017 Power Wagon, they are 1in longer than their normal springs. It's kind of a secret menu item, but it's just that, a longer Carli spring. My truck was highly unstable with load combined with Fox 2.0s. I removed these Carli coils, and talked to Dan Tourino about making a true heavy duty coil. Ultimately I had too many trips planned to wait around and even help them develop it, I resorted to the OE RAM 2500 coils and AEV...

 

[ttengineer]

Coils just hold the weight.

If your ride is unruly, you have a shock tuning issue. Not a coil issue.

Coils get the truck to sit at your specific height desired.

Too low, get a higher spring rate.

Too high, get a lower spring rate.

The shocks control how the coils rebound and compress. Most people don’t understand that shock tune is VERY important for intended use.


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[WILDPEAK]

This was the trip that I questioned the Carli (+1in rear coil) decision. I was simply full load in the bed, 3 guys, food/water for 4 days in the Grand Canyon. It was a little unstable on the highway, felt top heavy, I drove cautiously. It wasn't that sagged out in the rear end, it just wasn't confidence-inspiring on road. I had the 37s aired to 50psi all 4 corners. I didn't know the scale weight at that time but I assume 8,500 or more.

 

[WILDPEAK]

...and this was the first and final trip with the Carli suspension combined with rear shell (RLD) and rear bumper (Exp-One), both of which I have since removed due to excessive weight, especially behind the rear axle. It was scary to say the least. I was around 9,500lbs.





In my experience Carli was amazing up until about 8,500lbs. At 9,500lbs it was unsafe in my opinion. Again this data point is based on Fox 2.0s, maybe some King 2.5s+ would have helped, but I believe the coil rate is the source.

 

[WILDPEAK]

Coils just hold the weight.

If your ride is unruly, you have a shock tuning issue. Not a coil issue.

Coils get the truck to sit at your specific height desired.

Too low, get a higher spring rate.

Too high, get a lower spring rate.

The shocks control how the coils rebound and compress. Most people don’t understand that shock tune is VERY important for intended use.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Honestly I wish I would have tried shock tuning before ditching the Carli suspension. But the rear was sagging and unloading the front with the Expedition One fully weighted, which led me to believe the coils and shocks were not adequate...

It's not as simple as selecting coils just to achieve ride height. You can achieve the same ride height with two completely different coils. Coil length is equally important to coil rate. With that said, no one is arguing that shock tuning is critical.

As a data point, with the Carli +1in rear coil option, full load I was at 27in center to flare rear. With the exact same load on the AEV 2in rear spacer plus OE RAM 2500 coils I was at 28in wheel center to flare.

Now that I have ditched the weight, I wish I had kept the Carli and just changed the shocks, Dan Tourino suggested I do a custom-tuned set of King 2.5s... I would have known for sure if it was coils or shocks that caused the unruly highway stability.

I also heard on my Instagram feed that there is a custom King 2.5 tune available for the OE coils.

 

[WILDPEAK]

Currently I have ditched the rear bumper and have a lightweight high clearance one in the works. It drives like a stock truck at this point with the AEV lift and no weight hanging off the back. Flex is not terrible with the front disconnecting sway bar but washboard roads are a slog even sub-20psi with 38s. I only use the truck on weekend / week-long trips. The Bilstiens are terrible, I'm surprised I haven't blown them out yet. The truck weighs in around 9,250lbs on most trips now. Any and all advice appreciated on how to improve the suspension.