Questions About Shocks/Springs Ram 2500

[IdaSHO]

Proof seems to be in the puddin'

Only checked the fronts, but the fronts dont seem to be PW/other specific.

This is for the 68349082AA That 2manyprojects posted.

from here...

2019-2024 Ram 2500 Front Coil Spring, Right 68505943AB | My Mopar Parts

2019-2024 Ram 2500 part # 68505943AB - Front Coil Spring, Right

www.mymoparparts.com

 

[jadmt]

Not necessarily.

All in, the differences as I recall between the 6.4 and the cummins equate to roughly 650#
So you are less than 400# additional per coil up front.

Id say OEM running the same coil is likely.
The diesel will simply have a slightly lower ride height.

also the pw has a winch and winch mount and electric disconnect motor so that will add a bit of weight as well to close the gap a little.

 

[IdaSHO]

Very good point

 

[2manyprojects]

So, my base Tradesman has a scale weight on the registration of 7314 lbs; what is a real weight for one of your PW's?

Was just looking up my spring part numbers and the vendor lists the rears as "discontinued". That's concerning for a truck built Feb'20... ?

 

[jadmt]

7100lbs

 

[WILDPEAK]

This is great discussion about the part numbers of the coils on all 4 corners, but it's the rear coils that need the attention from the aftermarket. It's interesting that the PW FRONT coils might be used on a other trim. At this point we are reverse-engineering the RAM truck engineering team's part-sharing strategy !

The OE power wagon REAR coil is the main reason why the payload is de-rated. When you load the bed, the weight is right over the rear axle. When you load a rear bumper and/or add tongue weight via the hitch that's another game as well... The longer flexy rear OE PW springs and Carli/Thuren alike cause some instability when loaded.

With that said I am still considering lighter rate springs out back such as Carli (+1" Coils) or the OE Power Wagon springs (+ spacer), combined with air bags and Daystar cradles to get some load support outside at the frame rails (further out is better). This solution is working for a lot of guys, it just seems over-complicated to me.

 

[WILDPEAK]

Wildpeak, former Toyota guy here also, with 3 old ones still. My RAM is a whole new adventure and why I'm reading your thread. We've been touring in a built FJ-60 for a long time, often overloaded and I really liked the fact that I could select different stiffness springs (leafs) depending on load when I put it together. I was fortunate to spend 2 months in Aus, back in 2002, touring the East coast with a rented full overland diesel Land Cruiser w/rtt. Really opened my eyes to the practicality of mods. Aus has some interesting laws with lift and GVW's that force them to be pretty creative. I've seen the SuperRam info and keep monitoring to see if/when someone over there will start making suspensions.

I'm coming at this from the other side: I bought mine (Tradesman diesel) to haul a Black Series HQ-19 travel trailer, and so the priority is payload and towing, but have some trail capability. I'm adding 250lbs ea fr and rr with a 30gal aux tank and bumper/winch, and then planning to haul toys like inflatable kayaks and mtn bikes while towing. I'm starting with the AEV kit, then considering things like maybe PW radius arms for better flex, and a Thuren/Carli torsion sway bar. I figure that gets me in a decent place suspension-wise, and better to spend on locker/traction aids beyond...

I think the direction you're headed is awesome. I initially planned on a Tradesman as well with the Power Wagon package so I could get the lockers, Articulink arms, and swaybar disconnects from the factory... I wish you get a diesel Tradesman and add the PW package but that's another conversation altogether.

Migrating a Cummins Tradesman towards a PW is something I have contemplated. I have a PW with 5.13s and AEV payload. It's a pretty unstoppable truck with the swaybar disconnect, the flexy articulink arms, lockers, winch, etc. Taking a Diesel and adding lockers, swaybar disco, and flexy arms, that is awesome on paper but something I could never justify unless I was towing and really needed the Cummins. With that said, you're head is in the right place considering adding traction first. A lot of guys get so hung up on a wheel lifting every now and then due to limited suspension travel. Yes that's not ideal but nothing a locker won't fix. If I was you and/or started with the diesel, I would already need on-board air, so air lockers first then front swaybar and power wagon arms (or Lewis Built arms). I'm increasingly fearful of the axle tubes rotating, so more free movement of the front suspension off-road will not only add capability but also theoretical axle longevity.

 

[WILDPEAK]

...Really wish we could see data like compression curves for all the RAM OEM and aftermarket springs. So far, all I see are a few general references to some spring rates, but this is almost misleading. I've read that the '19-20 trucks have "progressive rate" coils, but have never seen it quantified. I agree overall that some intelligent spring design directed at our trucks carrying near max loads would be a great thing and a fairly big market. I don't know what we're missing that this isn't being addressed.

We're not missing anything except a solid aftermarket suspension geared toward a loaded truck! I also would like to see some engineering info on springs, being an engineer myself...

I'm jealous of the Gladiator suspension options already available. Fox 3.0s, etc...

I'd love to see turn-key expedition-style suspensions for the RAM 2500 platform in gas and diesel options. That is the main reason for re-igniting as well as continuing to pour fuel on this thread ...

 

[jadmt]

This is great discussion about the part numbers of the coils on all 4 corners, but it's the rear coils that need the attention from the aftermarket. It's interesting that the PW FRONT coils might be used on a other trim. At this point we are reverse-engineering the RAM truck engineering team's part-sharing strategy !

The OE power wagon REAR coil is the main reason why the payload is de-rated. When you load the bed, the weight is right over the rear axle. When you load a rear bumper and/or add tongue weight via the hitch that's another game as well... The longer flexy rear OE PW springs and Carli/Thuren alike cause some instability when loaded.

With that said I am still considering lighter rate springs out back such as Carli (+1" Coils) or the OE Power Wagon springs (+ spacer), combined with air bags and Daystar cradles to get some load support outside at the frame rails (further out is better). This solution is working for a lot of guys, it just seems over-complicated to me.

well when I search the tag part number that is on my rear coils it shows they are used on several 2500 variations. So when I talked to Dave he said it was the front suspension listing that was the issue with over loading them.

68091203AB - Rear Coil Spring, Left 2014-2024 Ram 2500 | Factory MOPAR Direct

Save Money When You Get Your Rear Coil Spring, Left - 68091203ab - Delivered Right To Your Door From Factory MOPAR Direct For Your 2014-2024 Ram 2500 Vehicle!

www.factorymopardirect.com

 

[tacollie]

This is an interesting discussing. What about the sway bar spring rates? I don't know a lot about PWs but if the PW has lighter sway bars that would decrease load performance even if it has diesel coils. While it's not ideal off-road heavier sway bars may improve load performance.

This guy's PW is overweight and he had similar complaints to you guys. I don't like bags but it's all compromises I guess.

RAM Power Wagon - OutdoorX4

RAM Power Wagon

outdoorx4.com

 

[WILDPEAK]

well when I search the tag part number that is on my rear coils it shows they are used on several 2500 variations. So when I talked to Dave he said it was the front suspension listing that was the issue with over loading them.

68091203AB - Rear Coil Spring, Left 2014-2024 Ram 2500 | Factory MOPAR Direct

Save Money When You Get Your Rear Coil Spring, Left - 68091203ab - Delivered Right To Your Door From Factory MOPAR Direct For Your 2014-2024 Ram 2500 Vehicle!

www.factorymopardirect.com

@jadmt Appreciate you correcting me on that. I retract that statement about the de-rated GVWR Power Wagon being only due to the rear coils. The softer front coils and taller factory ride height are for sure contributing factors to stability and payload... My assumption is that going all the way from a 3k lb bed load to a 1,500lb bed load on the Power Wagon was mostly due to the rear coils, likely a flawed assumption as you pointed out.

 

[2manyprojects]

Jadmt, I'm a little dubious on the parts vendor fitment listings. If you look up the front radius arms with the Articulink feature on your Power Wagons, they show fitment on almost every 2500 model. I'm taking it to mean they can fit, rather than are the OEM spec'ed part. I haven't really seen any factory front or rear springs with a specific listing. Not sure how to find a more concise reference.

I think rear springs dictate load capacity by their overall ability to carry the bed load without bottoming. Front springs and sway bar create the biggest sensation of stability (or lack) when initiating a turn. Not a direct comparison, but I run my FJ-60 with only a front sway bar, and heavily loaded initiating a turn, you feel almost a secondary reaction as the rear of the vehicle leans and the weight transfers to the outside wheels.

 

[2manyprojects]

tacollie makes an interesting point with the sway bar. The disconnecting mechanism generally adds stiffness to the bar, but I wonder how the PW sway bar compares in stiffness to a standard one. Anyone compared bar diameters?

Wildpeak, given any consideration to Timbrens, or other bump stop systems out there? I've not used them personally, but they do provide a means of stabilizing heavy loads, albeit compromising overall articulation.

 

[WILDPEAK]

This is an interesting discussing. What about the sway bar spring rates? I don't know a lot about PWs but if the PW has lighter sway bars that would decrease load performance even if it has diesel coils. While it's not ideal off-road heavier sway bars may improve load performance.

This guy's PW is overweight and he had similar complaints to you guys. I don't like bags but it's all compromises I guess.

RAM Power Wagon - OutdoorX4

RAM Power Wagon

outdoorx4.com

The Outdoor 4x guy like many of us have a constant 1,500lb+ payload. He was in what I call the worst case scenario because of the camper weight + the weight hanging off the rear bumper, which also unloads the front. It was discussed in length here as well.

Increasing Power Wagon payload

Very incorrect. The only limiting factor is the GVW Rating on the door sticker. You cannot legally change that rating. The limiting components are not just the springs, almost every other suspension related component is designed for the rated payload and articulation capabilities too...

expeditionportal.com

He did a Hellwig rear swaybar and air bags, which seemed to have solve the scary highway sway.

 

[WILDPEAK]

tacollie makes an interesting point with the sway bar. The disconnecting mechanism generally adds stiffness to the bar, but I wonder how the PW sway bar compares in stiffness to a standard one. Anyone compared bar diameters?

Wildpeak, given any consideration to Timbrens, or other bump stop systems out there? I've not used them personally, but they do provide a means of stabilizing heavy loads, albeit compromising overall articulation.

Air bags, Timbrens, Sumo Springs... plenty of "helper" options out there for sure. I like the fact that these solutions are outboard under the frame rails for stability like a leaf spring truck...

3500 leaf springs outboard the frame rails:


2500 coils inboard the frame rails:


Thank you, Mike Cairns:

Creating Rams: in Depth with Director of Ram Truck...

www.allpar.com