Range Rover axles on Series IIa
- Thread starter Toy-Roverlander
- Start date
Toy-Roverlander
Adventurer
I thought I would have an easy day today. That all I would have to do is clean up the U-bolt plates (or whatever you call that thick steel plate that sits under the axle, where the U-bolts go through) and rustproof and paint them.. Oh, and drill the holes into the springmounts for the centerpin.
When that was all done, except for the rustproofing and painting, I decided to trial fit the springs to the axle. See if it all fits nicely.
First of all I had to see where the springmounts would sit. I reckoned it was at the same spot where the radius arm mount used to be, and I was right, well, I was very close..
I measured the distance between the outer sides of the brake discs, which is 138cm, take 95cm of and divide that by 2. That gave me 21.5cm from the outside of the disc to the nearest side of the springmount. I had bent a piece of steel rod to 90degrees and clamped that onto the spring mount. That makes it easier to measure distance as you can measure in a straight line. Measuring between spring mounts is hard when there's the bulge of the diff in the way.
Anyway, that was all easy, so I dropped the spring on top, the u-bolt plate followed and after that the u-bolts. And guess what, the u-bolts didn't fit.
There's a weld that runs along both sides of the axle casing. This makes the axle wider at that point. So they had to be ground off.
The bumpstop needs some trimming too. About half an inch has te be taken off from the outerside, that's to clear the u-bolt.
After lots of carefull grinding the u-bolts fitted. Now I could fit the springs to the axle and make sure my new shockmounts would fit.
These need a slot in them to clear the u-bolt. I forgot to take a piccie of that one.
Now I know that I can fit the axle without problems, and line it all up.
The u-bolts and the centerpin are a bit long now as I've taken the 3rd leaf out of the pack. I might do something about that, depends on how the springs settle. I might have to put that leaf back in, I don't know yet.
And as soon as I receive my front springs I can start that.
:sombrero:
Koos
When that was all done, except for the rustproofing and painting, I decided to trial fit the springs to the axle. See if it all fits nicely.
First of all I had to see where the springmounts would sit. I reckoned it was at the same spot where the radius arm mount used to be, and I was right, well, I was very close..
I measured the distance between the outer sides of the brake discs, which is 138cm, take 95cm of and divide that by 2. That gave me 21.5cm from the outside of the disc to the nearest side of the springmount. I had bent a piece of steel rod to 90degrees and clamped that onto the spring mount. That makes it easier to measure distance as you can measure in a straight line. Measuring between spring mounts is hard when there's the bulge of the diff in the way.
Anyway, that was all easy, so I dropped the spring on top, the u-bolt plate followed and after that the u-bolts. And guess what, the u-bolts didn't fit.
There's a weld that runs along both sides of the axle casing. This makes the axle wider at that point. So they had to be ground off.
The bumpstop needs some trimming too. About half an inch has te be taken off from the outerside, that's to clear the u-bolt.
After lots of carefull grinding the u-bolts fitted. Now I could fit the springs to the axle and make sure my new shockmounts would fit.
These need a slot in them to clear the u-bolt. I forgot to take a piccie of that one.
Now I know that I can fit the axle without problems, and line it all up.
The u-bolts and the centerpin are a bit long now as I've taken the 3rd leaf out of the pack. I might do something about that, depends on how the springs settle. I might have to put that leaf back in, I don't know yet.
And as soon as I receive my front springs I can start that.
:sombrero:
Koos
Snagger
Explorer
Coming along very well. I presume you'll be welding plates on each end of spring mounts, firstly to keep the muck out, but more importantly to keep them laterally rigid?
I think the plates beneath the springs that the U bolts go through are called "spring plates", at least that's the name I usually see them referred to by, but it might not be the proper name.
I think the plates beneath the springs that the U bolts go through are called "spring plates", at least that's the name I usually see them referred to by, but it might not be the proper name.
Toy-Roverlander
Adventurer
Yes, I'm slooowly getting there
Yep, I'll be welding plates at each end of the spring mounts (see the 4 plates in the piccie below). I do want it all to be very strong.
Keeping muck out, good point. I wished Land Rover thought about that one when welding on bumpstop pads and such on the Rover axles. They're open at the corners....... In other words. They get full of muck, you can't clean them out and eventually it could rust through the casing unseen.....
Spring plates, u-bolt plates..... I don't know what the proper name is, as long as people know what I'm babbling about
Koos
Snagger
Explorer
Good news - I spoke to that chap who's planning a new range of parabolics, and he want's them to be affordable but high quality. Somewhere between RM and TIC prices. He seems to have a very good team and business (they make suspension for McClaren, classic cars, Caterhams, JCBs and more, so their quality and range is good). I pointed out to him that asking me to do a trial may be unrepresentative because my 109 is so much heavier than stanard (though not unusual for an exped vehicle). i think he's keen to cater for that niche, as well as to triallers who want suppleness for their lighter vehicles and normal road users. He suggested I get the front and rear of my 109 weighed so that he could make the springs to suit my particular vehicle! I hope he can do these bespoke kits at a sensible price - they'll be the best on the market. he also agreed that on LRs, special dampers are a waste of money - he too feels that stiff for heavy vehicles and moderate for light triallers is good enough. I reckon ProComp 3000 and 9000 damper rates are fine; it's just their poor chrome quality that lets them down (the pistons rust in no time at all).
He is also keen to get his hands on my anti-roll bar - he plans to make kits for fitting to Series LRs, which will be great news for many 109 exped/works vehicles with high weights and tall CoGs.
He is also keen to get his hands on my anti-roll bar - he plans to make kits for fitting to Series LRs, which will be great news for many 109 exped/works vehicles with high weights and tall CoGs.
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Toy-Roverlander
Adventurer
That is good news!
It would be very good to have a parabolic spring maker who can make custom springs for your particular needs. And if the price will be in between RM and TIC I reckon that would attract many potential buyers.
I would be one of them when my cheapo rear para's start to sag too badly after a while, or worse, when/if they break....
Haha, get a copyright on your anti-roll bar design
. Maybe you can get a share of the profit of each one he sells..Personally, I wouldn't fit them as they restrict articulation, and that's something I want to keep no matter what. I'll put up with some body roll.
I would have never thought that people would complain about body roll on a Series vehicle, they're not exactly known for their fast cornering abilities
But indeed, with a high CofG it does make sense, especially with para's fitted!
Does that guy who is planning on doing those springs have a website ?
Koos
Snagger
Explorer
I'll ask him if his business does have a site. I don't think he's the boss - I think he's one of the project engineers, but I didn't ask. I should do that.
The body roll I suffered on those Alpine hairpins and the mountain track side slopes, where we had to cross land slides, were not just uncomfortable - they were positively frigtening. Given that I already have a Tdi engine, and the new axles will give me good braking and a wide track, it'd be nice not to have to slow to a crawl for the bends, and even nicer not to be heeling around the corners while trying to keep up with the convoy of modern LRs.
I didn't design any of the anti-roll bar components. The brackets I drew up were copied from ditting diagrams in the LR military manuals; I just had to draw them to scale and put the measurements on. All I have altered is the manner in which the parts are fitted to the vehicle because of the rear tank. Royalites or profit share would be nice, but I don't think I have nuch right to them!
The body roll I suffered on those Alpine hairpins and the mountain track side slopes, where we had to cross land slides, were not just uncomfortable - they were positively frigtening. Given that I already have a Tdi engine, and the new axles will give me good braking and a wide track, it'd be nice not to have to slow to a crawl for the bends, and even nicer not to be heeling around the corners while trying to keep up with the convoy of modern LRs.
I didn't design any of the anti-roll bar components. The brackets I drew up were copied from ditting diagrams in the LR military manuals; I just had to draw them to scale and put the measurements on. All I have altered is the manner in which the parts are fitted to the vehicle because of the rear tank. Royalites or profit share would be nice, but I don't think I have nuch right to them!
Toy-Roverlander
Adventurer
I'll post some piccies now. I just want to show of some articulation that my old Landy is capable of..
Note the reverse arching rear spring....
Articulation (especially on the front) will improver with the para's and the RR axles :victory:
On the rear I'll be limiting bumptravel a bit as this will wreck the para's quite quickly I reckon. But It will be getting more droop due to longer shocks..
Not bad eh for a leafer.
Note the reverse arching rear spring....
Articulation (especially on the front) will improver with the para's and the RR axles :victory:
On the rear I'll be limiting bumptravel a bit as this will wreck the para's quite quickly I reckon. But It will be getting more droop due to longer shocks..
Not bad eh for a leafer.
Snagger
Explorer
very impressive, Koos. 109 SWs were never fitted with 1-Ton suspension, but the rear mountings have been modified to give roughly the same ride ehight as a 1-Ton. Using 1-Ton bump stop extensions would be a "good thing", saving those springs (parabolic or traditional). You just unbolt the existing stops, fit the extension in the same manner as the stop, then refit the stop to the extension. Give the insides a good wax coating and they should last fine. They're still available from LR suppliers, or you could fabricate your own.
Toy-Roverlander
Adventurer
Last week or so I actually measured the difference between the mountings on my chassis and on the 109"of a mate of mine. His is a '71 IIa 109" SW.
The front mounting point is 3 cm lower than standard (that is the bolt hole) and the rear turret, where the bush sits in, is 5cm lower than standard.
Normally on a one-ton the rear turrret is standard height, but longer shackles were used. In my case that turret got lenghtened (it's all homemade, nearly the whole chassis is home made I reckon).
But with some extended bumpstops I can reduce some of the reverse arching, and with longer shocks I get more droop.
I'll just knock something up myself, it's not that hard.
Snagger
Explorer
I had a quick measure up. 1-Ton spring hangers have their lower biolt holes 40mm below the upper (standard height) holes, and the bump stop spacers are also 40mm deep. I don't have a set of standard shackles, but I could guess at them being about 45-50mm longer to give a 40mm vertical component of the increase. The chassis mountings for the shackles on 1-Tons are standard, by the way.
Toy-Roverlander
Adventurer
Thanks for that!
I do have the one-ton shackles, and yesterday I compared them to my LWB shackles and they are only about 30 to 35mm longer. I was a bit surprised, like you I expected them to be 45-50mm longer.
I did some research yesterday on the Rangie axle conversion and I found a forum on which this guy had done just that. He used para's, a 20mm spacer block and one-ton shackles. It looked really neat.
So I decided to to the same thing.
( I saw your name a couple of times as well on some forums)
Anyway. I should get the front springs in somewhere this week. And as I have to work coming sunday I can only start next monday.
Snagger
Explorer
That's an 88" which belongs to a friend of mine. He has standard front mountings and used 1-ton shackles to rotate the back of the spring down so it'd clear the track rod and to lift the vehicle to regain some of the height lost by the thicker spring seats. The castor angle is a bit too small, though, he says, resulting in too light steering at speed.