Raptor vs Power Wagon

Larry

Bigassgas Explorer
This is a couple year old thread but there is no comparison between the two. It is like trying to compare and anvil to a Taco Bell spork. Two totally different tools intended for different jobs, plus everybody already knows the Power Wagon is better for our hobby anyway. :sombrero:
 

Metcalf

Expedition Leader
I'd like to see someone add the full-meal-deal Carli suspension to the Powerwagon....then compare it to the Raptor :) That would just be fun.....
 

coder

New member
I'd like to see someone add the full-meal-deal Carli suspension to the Powerwagon....then compare it to the Raptor :) That would just be fun.....

I have Carli King 2.5 Pin-top shocks, a Carli track bar, and a Bilstein 5100 steering damper on my 07 Power Wagon. And have no problems flying down unmaintained Mojave desert dirt roads comfortably at 45-50 mph, that same speed at which the Raptor frame bends.

Raptor Frame Bending Video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6eK-1Ld7sJY
 
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EXP-T100

Adventurer
Yes i agree that this is an apple and orange comparison but the frames do bend its been well documented (even by ford engineer's), take a look at the link i posted. As a side note I have nothing against ford i have owned 5 in the passed 13yrs and loved every one.
 

Saiyan66

Adventurer
I think the frame bending issues are coming from the fact that people are airing out these Raptors off road and expecting no consequences. It is unfortunate because the Ford advertising suggests that this is what the truck was made for. It is just a 1/2ton with upgraded suspension and people think its a damn trophy truck. The Ford frame is plenty strong for duty as a regular truck however.

On the other hand the Power Wagon actually has a frame that started as an HD truck and then was strengthened further. I would have thought that Ford would have beefed up the Raptor frame above the stock F-150 level just like Dodge did with the PW frame above the normal HD level.
 
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Buliwyf

Viking with a Hammer
Yes i agree that this is an apple and orange comparison but the frames do bend its been well documented (even by ford engineer's), take a look at the link i posted. As a side note I have nothing against ford i have owned 5 in the passed 13yrs and loved every one.

NO, they don't.

Would you rather have a Honda Accord that crumples and crushes absorbing an impact, or a 1940 Chrysler that'll survive an accident with hardly any damage but spear the driver with the steering column and bludgen the passenger to death against the dashboard?

Get off the Flatbill Mafia website and check out Fords response to the Raptor forum momo's. It says right in the owners manual that showing up in the Ford Service Garage wearing a Monster Energy t-shirt and a DC Shoes hat will void your warranty. LOLz.

Here's exactly what is happening:
-If you hit a bump way too hard while prerunning a course the suspension bottoms out. The bump stop soaks up some of that hit and you live to see another day. The way hitting a bumpstop feels, is the first clue that you're driving the truck too hard or just plain stink at driving.

-If you drive even harder the suspension will bottom out and damage the bumpstop mounts. A real sure sign that those Raptors were pushed way too hard. Warranty is now Void.

-If you decide to drive even harder then that impact will blow right through the bumpstop and damage the frame.

Ford has a few choices here:
-allow the frame to bend that way the occupants survive and the truck maintains control and drives home.
-stengthen the frame, stiffen the shocks or bumpstops, so that the truck bounces off the ground and goes flying through the air and rolling ejecting all the passengers and then landing in a childrens playground and exploding.

They wrecked their trucks by driving like idiots. Any lesser truck would have killed someone. It's clear in the vid that they maintained control safely and even drove thier broken truck home.

There are some failure points designed into cars to protect the drivers. Dragsters have engines that break away from the chassis in a huge accident. Indy cars have rear bumpers that absorb some of the impact when you back them in. The chassis bend occurs to protect the drivers, without that bend the truck would just spring up in the air uncontrollable. Instead of bouncing, the chassis bends absorbing the crash. Let's face it, the flatbillers pretty much crashed thier Raptors on that bump.

A properly driven Raptor will not have any frame damage. Even if you drive it like in the commercials, but if you screw up your landing, or just plain can't drive, then yes, you'll certainly have plenty of damage.
 
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KaiserM715

Adventurer
{snip}

They wrecked their trucks by driving like idiots. Any lesser truck would have killed someone. It's clear in the vid that they maintained control safely and even drove thier broken truck home.

{snip}

A properly driven Raptor will not have any frame damage. Even if you drive it like in the commercials, but if you screw up your landing, or just plain can't drive, then yes, you'll certainly have plenty of damage.

Your entire response is 100% spot on.

All of the bad press was due to one individual who got mad that Ford would not warranty his frame and was his attempt at revenge. He promoted the whole thing as a design defect and pushed it to the press. All of the Raptor haters took the story hook, line and sinker and have kept it alive, adding embellishments along the way. One of the other individuals on that same trip, who also bent his frame, was honest and admitted that it was 100% his fault because he drove the truck beyond its abilities. The Raptor is NOT a trophy truck, nor did Ford market it as such.

Yes i agree that this is an apple and orange comparison but the frames do bend its been well documented (even by ford engineer's), take a look at the link i posted.
Ford's assessment was that the trucks were over-driven.
Here is the response from Jamal Hameedi from SVT:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kfzJiNDXRXs
 
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Buliwyf

Viking with a Hammer
If I would have hit that same bump, at the same speed, in my much stiffer sprung and framed F250 Superduty, I wouldn't still be here.
 

EXP-T100

Adventurer
Wow lets not let this get out of hand guys i never said ford was wrong or right and i never said every ones bending there frame had no blame in it, all i said is "they bend", toyota had the same issue with first gen taco's. they would rust through or we would just bend them by putting to much weight in them. the only difference is toyota did something about the ones under warranty. That never stopped me from buying one i just reinforced the frame just like the raptor guys are doing including the guy who started that thread and seams to love his. And yes i have read and watched what jamal hameedi has said on the issue and he dose a good job explaining the issue and how guy are f-ing up there frames. was the truck built to run as hard as same are driving them, no and thats where ford messed up in the first few years with there adds of truck running 80mph in the desert hitting jumps and kicker and even bending those frames. Ford has learned a lessen and the new add has non of what the old adds had and they redesigned the rear bump stops. so good on them. i am not going to take any side nor have/did i.


Josh
 

Ponyracer

Adventurer
-stengthen the frame, stiffen the shocks or bumpstops, so that the truck bounces off the ground and goes flying through the air and rolling ejecting all the passengers and then landing in a childrens playground and exploding.

Sig worthy if I've ever seen one...
 

toylandcruiser

Expedition Leader
NO, they don't.

Would you rather have a Honda Accord that crumples and crushes absorbing an impact, or a 1940 Chrysler that'll survive an accident with hardly any damage but spear the driver with the steering column and bludgen the passenger to death against the dashboard?

Old cars crumple in high speed impacts just as much as new cars. You ever see the video of the 1959 impala vs the new one? After watching it, I have no desire to rely on old cars for safety.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=joMK1WZjP7g&feature=youtube_gdata_player
 

KaiserM715

Adventurer
Wow lets not let this get out of hand guys. {snip} i am not going to take any side nor have/did i.

Josh
It really comes across that you are stirring things up when your first contribution to this thread is this and include a link to a very drama filled thread (with many dissenting opinions deleted / edited by forum staff):
Holy old thread batman lol well since its up, The Rapotor has issues with the frame bending: http://www.raptorforumz.com/showthread.php?t=14208
If that is not how you intended to come across, then everything is good!! :friday:

toyota had the same issue with first gen taco's. they would rust through or we would just bend them by putting to much weight in them. the only difference is toyota did something about the ones under warranty. That never stopped me from buying one i just reinforced the frame just like the raptor guys are doing including the guy who started that thread and seams to love his.
There is the difference. A big difference. Toyota's frame issues were indeed a design / build quality issue and should have been covered under warranty. The issues with the Raptors frame is simply driver abuse, with warranty coverage, in this case, rightly denied. Reinforcing the frame on the Raptor very much alters its performance in a rear-end collision and will not absorb energy as designed. Instead, that energy will be transferred to the occupants. Something to consider before altering the design with something like reinforcement.


It all boils down to pre-running the course and driving within the capabilities of the truck (and driver, for that matter).
 
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