Raptor vs Power Wagon

[jcbrandon]

This comparison is apples and oranges. 1/2ton vs 3/4ton platforms obviously different. Raptor is designed for highspeed bumpy stuff vs power wagon low speed hauling a load, obviously different applications. Sure they are both fullsize domestics but totally different intended uses, so this thread is LAME.

This thread, like any thread in any forum, is as good as the contributions we make to it.

...Each truck has its strengths. Both can be used for adventure travel, provided you respect the limitations of each vehicle.

What aspects of design and performance attract you to these trucks?...

The post that starts this thread does not suggest a comparison. It points out two very different trucks that work great in the dirt and asks us what we like about them. It doesn't say we have to take sides. If I could justify another pickup I'd love to have a Raptor in addition to my Power Wagon.

 

[chasespeed]

Gimme a Quad Cab ram, with the Cummins, the lockers, sway bar disconnects, the under armor, and a Kore or Carli suspension.....

Chase

 

[haven]

Dodge decided not to offer the front or rear differential locker
with the Cummins in 2010. There is a limited slip rear differential
standard with the 3500. The trick electric sway bar disconnect
is not available from the factory, either. So you've got some
custom work ahead to replicate the stock Power Wagon equipment.

 

[stioc]

I have a couple of technical questions about Part 2 of the review: http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2009/1...f150-svt-raptor-vs-dodge-ram-power-wagon.html

First they established that the PW has a crawl ratio of 37.2:1 and the Raptor has a better crawl ratio of 45.14:1.

Then they say this:

The Raptor also features Ford's first application of hill descent control. It uses the truck’s antilock braking system to automatically modulate the brakes to slow travel down steep slopes so the driver can focus on steering and it helps make up for the Raptor's 45.14:1 crawl ratio.

Helps make up? I thought 45.14:1 was better than the PW's 37.2:1?

Also, I thought ABS becomes a problem in hill descends - which in itself is something I never understood why? especially considering the fact that ABS doesn't work under a certain MPH threshold (usually 10mph or less).

Back to the article - they claim this:

When it comes to lockers, the shoe is on the other foot. Ford’s electronic locking rear axle is a tremendous traction adder that works in two-wheel drive at high speeds, like a Baja PreRunner, as well as in 4-High (up to 25 mph) and 4-Low (up to 66 mph). Raptor is the only factory off-roader with this feature.

Should 4-high be 66mph and 4-low 25mph?

 

[chasespeed]

I have a couple of technical questions about Part 2 of the review: http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2009/1...f150-svt-raptor-vs-dodge-ram-power-wagon.html

First they established that the PW has a crawl ratio of 37.2:1 and the Raptor has a better crawl ratio of 45.14:1.

Then they say this:


Helps make up? I thought 45.14:1 was better than the PW's 37.2:1?


Should 4-high be 66mph and 4-low 25mph?

What is makes up for the extremem sensitivity that can come from the extremely low ration.

Say your 1st gear is 4.5:1... pretty darn lively when you get after it... If second is say 2.3:1... it wont be as peppy... or sensitive...

BUT, if you go the other way, and you have a crawl ratio almost 3x lower than your Hi range, it can get interesting. SO, they tuned the map for low range, to remove the touchiness, so, you and your passengers dont end up going to the Whiplash Driving school...

And yeah, I think it was a typo in the last line you wrote.... if you hit 66mph in low range...... uh.... yeah....

BTW, I know they dont offer the ram like that... and I am perfectly happy with my current truck... I was just stating, IF they could option up the Cummins Ram with similar equipment, I would be on my way to the dealer to discuss it....

Chase

 

[redthies]

gimme a quad cab ram, with the cummins, the lockers, sway bar disconnects, the under armor, and a kore or carli suspension.....

Chase

yes please!!!!

 

[Fireman78]

It would be cool to own BOTH trucks. Of course the Raptor would be my specilized desert racing truck, used once in a while. The Power Wagon would be used for everything else. :sombrero: I can attest to the Leatherman comment about the PW. I have owned mine for over two years and can honestly say I have probably abused it more than any other PW out there. I DO use it for everything, in all terrain, weather, and conditons. It does everything I ask it too and begs for more.

 

[Desolation]

It would be cool to own BOTH trucks. Of course the Raptor would be my specilized desert racing truck, used once in a while. The Power Wagon would be used for everything else. :sombrero:

Now there is an idea...
Though it would be the PW that would sit. in my case.:av-7:

 

[Funrover]

Give me the PW any day!!!

 

[JRH_PowerWagon_06]

What is makes up for the extreme sensitivity that can come from the extremely low ratio.

Say your 1st gear is 4.5:1... pretty darn lively when you get after it... If second is say 2.3:1... it wont be as peppy... or sensitive...

BUT, if you go the other way, and you have a crawl ratio almost 3x lower than your Hi range, it can get interesting. SO, they tuned the map for low range, to remove the touchiness, so, you and your passengers dont end up going to the Whiplash Driving school...

And yeah, I think it was a typo in the last line you wrote.... if you hit 66mph in low range...... uh.... yeah....

BTW, I know they dont offer the ram like that... and I am perfectly happy with my current truck... I was just stating, IF they could option up the Cummins Ram with similar equipment, I would be on my way to the dealer to discuss it....

Chase

The Pickuptruck.com article was not that great. FourWheeler has a more accurate review: http://www.fourwheeler.com/roadtests/129_0912_2010_ford_f150_raptor_first_drive/index.html

They are right about the crawl ratio on the automatic transmisson (only) 2010 Power Wagon. But the auto first gear on the Ford is lower to make up for it's weak performance compared to the Hemi.
The Power Wagon also has off-road optimized throttle mapping in low range.

2006-2009 Power Wagons could be had with a manual six-speed transmission with a granny low first gear that gives it an insane crawl ratio, if that's what floats your boat. Sadly Chrysler didn't offer this for 2010, or bring back the Mopar accessory heavy duty rock-rails that they discontinued awhile ago. Those two features alone could help sell more trucks.

Back to the pickuptruck.com review... The ground clearance on the Raptor is not 11.2 inches. That is the front wheel-travel spec. Sure the Ford's weak IFS has more ground clearance than the solid-axle 3/4 ton Dodge. But the Dodge has steel underbody protection, not aluminum.

They love the Raptors rear e-locker, that it can be used at any speed in 2wd or 4wd (only in off-road mode) but, fail to point out that it doesn't have a limited slip for the 99.9% of the time you need one. The Power Wagon has an awesome helical gear limited slip whenever you are not locked.

Raptor has no front traction differential at all. FourWheeler brings that one up.

Comparing stock tires is stupid. Most Power Wagon owners change to real 35 inch MT's (without a suspension lift) before the break-in period. Doubt you can increase tire size on Raptor at all. Engine/CV-axle/steering/diff. , etc. can't handle it.

I would love to see Dodge build a 1/2 ton pre-runner that competes with the Raptor, so they would stop comparing these two different machines.:safari-rig:

 

[winkosmosis]

What exactly limits the Raptor's towing and weight capacity? Soft springs for going fast on dirt?

 

[haven]

I think that's right. The Raptor suspension is very different from
the standard F150 in order to soak up washboard and bumps at
high speed. Mission accomplished!

I guess Ford decided the Raptor would be run empty most of the time.
It's a sport truck, rather than a work truck.

Ford is rumored to be working on a crew cab Raptor. Maybe this
version will have a higher cargo capacity.

 

[Desolation]

What exactly limits the Raptor's towing and weight capacity? Soft springs for going fast on dirt?

Yup and a lighter rear axle assembly.

 

[DEEZLPWR]

my 01 cummins with 6spd has a crawl ratio of 62.79 running 34's

all i need are lockers and i got my power wagon.

 

[Bella PSD]

my 01 cummins with 6spd has a crawl ratio of 62.79 running 34's

all i need are lockers and i got my power wagon.

Almost the same for me but a Ford ZF 6 speed with 35" tires and 3.73 gearing. Crawl ratio of 58.74! With 4.11 gearing I would be at 65 crawl ratio.

Power Wagon is a MUCH cooler name than Raptor. To bad the 2010 PW does not get the 6 speed! That rules it out for me, deal breaker!

Louie