Desertdude
Expedition Leader
go get 'em Scott - enjoy the experiance... :088:
I would not be surprised if you did not come home with two boxes :victory:
I would not be surprised if you did not come home with two boxes :victory:
Real Time? Mac Pro or G5
- Thread starter Scott Brady
- Start date
bigreen505
Expedition Leader
Scott,
I would really recommend 4 GB of RAM with 90% available to Photoshop. Also on the hard drive front, a 500 GB primary drive and a 250 GB scratch drive for Photoshop to dump instructions to (no files at all on the drive, Photoshop will completely fill 250 GB running actions). The primary drive has system, applications, and any currently working files, particularly photos. This will make a huge difference in speed if Photoshop can pull the file from the primary drive and deposit derivative files there. After all processing is finished, move them off the computer to your storage array.
You asked what you need to know coming to the Mac world from the PC world, so there it is: Macs, and particularly the entire Adobe Creative Suite run on a Mac, uses memory, both RAM and HD, very differently than a PC running PS 6. For that matter, CS2 works very different from CS and we have had to change our hardware setups and workflows to accommodate these differences.
If you have an external drive, even a firewire 800 drive, that you can dedicate as a scratch disk, use it. If you don't believe me, try it yourself, I'll even send an action.
As for monitors, I have run a dual setup since 1995, but I find a single 24" monitor more than sufficient. If you are planning to have a workflow that centers around Aperture dual monitors can be beneficial, but I am more than happy just having one.
I'll stop ranting now.
I would really recommend 4 GB of RAM with 90% available to Photoshop. Also on the hard drive front, a 500 GB primary drive and a 250 GB scratch drive for Photoshop to dump instructions to (no files at all on the drive, Photoshop will completely fill 250 GB running actions). The primary drive has system, applications, and any currently working files, particularly photos. This will make a huge difference in speed if Photoshop can pull the file from the primary drive and deposit derivative files there. After all processing is finished, move them off the computer to your storage array.
You asked what you need to know coming to the Mac world from the PC world, so there it is: Macs, and particularly the entire Adobe Creative Suite run on a Mac, uses memory, both RAM and HD, very differently than a PC running PS 6. For that matter, CS2 works very different from CS and we have had to change our hardware setups and workflows to accommodate these differences.
If you have an external drive, even a firewire 800 drive, that you can dedicate as a scratch disk, use it. If you don't believe me, try it yourself, I'll even send an action.
As for monitors, I have run a dual setup since 1995, but I find a single 24" monitor more than sufficient. If you are planning to have a workflow that centers around Aperture dual monitors can be beneficial, but I am more than happy just having one.
I'll stop ranting now.
Scott Brady
Founder
Well, the more I research, the more I am leaning towards the G5. I really like the IMac but performance tests (PS 10 filter test) give a clear advantage to the G5 still.
But if I get the G5, I am going to need to do something quick, as there are just a few left at the Compusa in Chandler (I am spending the weekend with family in Phoenix).
We went to the Apple store today and played with all of the machines. The iMac 20" is nice, and quite reasonable on pricing too (also supporting a second monitor with DVM). Steph felt right at home with the Mac's and really loved the design, ease of navigation and the focus towards creative applications. It will be a good fit for us.
My only workflow and real world experience was with DesertDude, working on Final Cut with his top of the line G5 and 30" monitor. It is a thing of beauty, with great performance.
So, our biggest concern is the iMac's performance with the current software (Adobe suite), and it will be at least 6 months until new versions of the software is available, which is too long.
More research on the G5...
But if I get the G5, I am going to need to do something quick, as there are just a few left at the Compusa in Chandler (I am spending the weekend with family in Phoenix).
We went to the Apple store today and played with all of the machines. The iMac 20" is nice, and quite reasonable on pricing too (also supporting a second monitor with DVM). Steph felt right at home with the Mac's and really loved the design, ease of navigation and the focus towards creative applications. It will be a good fit for us.
My only workflow and real world experience was with DesertDude, working on Final Cut with his top of the line G5 and 30" monitor. It is a thing of beauty, with great performance.
So, our biggest concern is the iMac's performance with the current software (Adobe suite), and it will be at least 6 months until new versions of the software is available, which is too long.
More research on the G5...
Desertdude
Expedition Leader
More dialog 
Most of Apples products are priced leveled around the world - certain resellers can lower prices or offer deals combining other products in a package - the Apple store is the one place you can build the computer the way you like ( some value added retailers can do this too but it all comes form the Apple store)
if you purchase from a reseller you will need to track down much more operating ram - 8 gigs is what you should really have - you can do it with 4gigs but you will notice slowing with several apps open - also with ram it is a good idea that it is matched ( not a place you should cut corners) = add more $$
Hard drives are cheap and you can even slide more in with this little device maybe not now but eventually to work easily = add more $$
The G5 dual will work fine for Graphics - if you get into vid editing and Motion graphics the quad is the way to go - again do not overlook the fastest video card this will help with the larger monitor as well as some of Apples Apps (motion for one) = add more $$
Again: consider how much work you will actually be doing (computer face time) per hour/per year - then divide those hours into the total cost
you know my motto; buy the best and cry once - I have never looked back
(looking back at my order in March - just the G5 was 6K with my build type)
and still - since this is an amazing transition time for Apple and things are up in the air for hardware and SW - I would not let a filter test keep you from making a better long term Hardware decision - I would still reccomend the iMac 20" to get you in the intel game - budgeting down the road one year ( July mac world) for the third version of the hardware and the first wave of Intel matched SW - with this plan you will have had the time to get real familar with the product ( using the iMac) and have enough time to plan and research just how you will be using the mew Apple line -
Most of Apples products are priced leveled around the world - certain resellers can lower prices or offer deals combining other products in a package - the Apple store is the one place you can build the computer the way you like ( some value added retailers can do this too but it all comes form the Apple store)
if you purchase from a reseller you will need to track down much more operating ram - 8 gigs is what you should really have - you can do it with 4gigs but you will notice slowing with several apps open - also with ram it is a good idea that it is matched ( not a place you should cut corners) = add more $$
Hard drives are cheap and you can even slide more in with this little device maybe not now but eventually to work easily = add more $$
The G5 dual will work fine for Graphics - if you get into vid editing and Motion graphics the quad is the way to go - again do not overlook the fastest video card this will help with the larger monitor as well as some of Apples Apps (motion for one) = add more $$
Again: consider how much work you will actually be doing (computer face time) per hour/per year - then divide those hours into the total cost
you know my motto; buy the best and cry once - I have never looked back
(looking back at my order in March - just the G5 was 6K with my build type)
and still - since this is an amazing transition time for Apple and things are up in the air for hardware and SW - I would not let a filter test keep you from making a better long term Hardware decision - I would still reccomend the iMac 20" to get you in the intel game - budgeting down the road one year ( July mac world) for the third version of the hardware and the first wave of Intel matched SW - with this plan you will have had the time to get real familar with the product ( using the iMac) and have enough time to plan and research just how you will be using the mew Apple line -
Scott Brady
Founder
Desertdude said:
Thanks amigo.
I like the iMac 20" idea, but what do I do about Adobe CS? I will have a machine and no appropriate software to run on it for at least 6 months (and we will need to be doing advanced layout work in about 5-6 weeks). Many of the plug-ins to CS do not work with Rosetta.
Does anyone have a copy of the Adobe CS they are willing to sell? The thought of spending $1,200 twice within a year is crazy.
Desertdude
Expedition Leader
yes that is a pickle - and it will run slow if at all in rosetta -
[I am having odd issues with CS2 on my Macbookpro Ai and imgready will run but PS decided it won't anymore the SW suggests to re install ... I will when I get back to AZ]
----------------------------------------------------------
G5 quad - 8 gigs of Ram - 20" Apple store - :iagree:
[edit} should be a CS2-CS3 crossgrade offer though Adobe
[I am having odd issues with CS2 on my Macbookpro Ai and imgready will run but PS decided it won't anymore the SW suggests to re install ... I will when I get back to AZ]
----------------------------------------------------------
G5 quad - 8 gigs of Ram - 20" Apple store - :iagree:
[edit} should be a CS2-CS3 crossgrade offer though Adobe
DaktariEd
2005, 2006 Tech Course Champion: Expedition Trophy
Scott, if you have an older version of Photoshop (Windows) you may be able to get CS2 for significantly less. Don't know if they will do a cross platform upgrade, but it's worth a call or two.
I sense a new Mac convert brewing...
:jumping:
I sense a new Mac convert brewing...
:jumping:
Life_in_4Lo
Explorer
The Dude summed it up nicely. The iMac 20 (w/superdrive) is great (I own one in fact) I run Final Cut, After Effects, CS2 ps & illustrator on it. Just for perspective, the iMac blows away the top-of-the line tower from just a couple years ago
Final cut is slow when you get big files but for the price you really cant beat it. Also, you will get the iLife 06 bundled w/ it and that is a great bundle w/ idvd, and video editing that is really quite good- also, it is a natural progression to Final cut since the interface is similar.
G5's are smokin' great but as the dude mentions, the price/use/value quotient may not be favorable.
don't forget the "necessary" upgrades like maxing out the RAM, seperate hard drive (safe storage/backup)
also in the future, to transfer all info from your old Mac to your new, all you do is plug a firewire and let 'er rip. few hours later all files, preferences, settings are in your new computer:jumping:
iMac now and you can get a nice MacBook Pro 17" in 6 mo or yr. It is powerful enuff to be a workstation, as well as portable. Also can run a second monitor as well.
Final cut is slow when you get big files but for the price you really cant beat it. Also, you will get the iLife 06 bundled w/ it and that is a great bundle w/ idvd, and video editing that is really quite good- also, it is a natural progression to Final cut since the interface is similar.
G5's are smokin' great but as the dude mentions, the price/use/value quotient may not be favorable.
don't forget the "necessary" upgrades like maxing out the RAM, seperate hard drive (safe storage/backup)
also in the future, to transfer all info from your old Mac to your new, all you do is plug a firewire and let 'er rip. few hours later all files, preferences, settings are in your new computer:jumping:
iMac now and you can get a nice MacBook Pro 17" in 6 mo or yr. It is powerful enuff to be a workstation, as well as portable. Also can run a second monitor as well.
jeffryscott
2006 Rally Course Champion: Expedition Trophy
run photoshop in windows on the iMac ...
one thing to consider with the iMac - run Photoshop in Windows with bootcamp or parrallels. This solves the dilemma of running under Rosetta - you get native performance and Photoshop (and photoshop is pretty even cross platform as far as everything goes.)
Then, when the time comes, buy the universal photoshop for Mac (and you don't need to spend 1200 twice, the upgrades are reasonable, and if you have access to the education market, that makes it even a sweeter deal (software is super cheap through universit).
one thing to consider with the iMac - run Photoshop in Windows with bootcamp or parrallels. This solves the dilemma of running under Rosetta - you get native performance and Photoshop (and photoshop is pretty even cross platform as far as everything goes.)
Then, when the time comes, buy the universal photoshop for Mac (and you don't need to spend 1200 twice, the upgrades are reasonable, and if you have access to the education market, that makes it even a sweeter deal (software is super cheap through universit).
jeffryscott
2006 Rally Course Champion: Expedition Trophy
Scott, this goes with running photoshop in windows until a native photoshop arrives:
Mac Pro (2.66GHz) Photoshop CS2 tests in Rosetta vs. Win XP (BootCamp) -
" Hi Mike, I ran PSBench (the OWC version) again on my Mac Pro, this time with a stop watch, once immediately after cold boot in OS X, and then once (after all my antivirus and spyware software finished loading) in Win XP Professional (Bootcamp), both in fully updated CS2 installations. The results really show what to expect on the Mac Pros once CS3 is out and Universal next year:
(Time to complete 21 filter tests)
OS X in Rosetta: 227 sec
Win XP native: 110 sec
Yes, that's more than twice as fast. In fact, it'll likely be even faster. My OS X Photoshop install is running its scratch disk off a SATA RAID, but the Win XP install is running scratch on a single SATA/2 drive. Not sure how much PSBench 7 hits the scratch disk, but I did hear disk activity during the tests. (the std PSbench test uses a 10MB image, although the official site has downloads that use up to 50MB image)
My Mac Pro is a Quad 2.66 with 2GB RAM (4x512MB installed by Apple).
Vader "
The Aug. 24th news page had his previous notes on Mac Pro 2.66GHz vs Dual 1.8GHz G5 Photoshop CS2 Filter tests
This comes from http://www.xlr8yourmac.com/ ... but it gives you an idea of how fast the new machines can be.
Mac Pro (2.66GHz) Photoshop CS2 tests in Rosetta vs. Win XP (BootCamp) -
" Hi Mike, I ran PSBench (the OWC version) again on my Mac Pro, this time with a stop watch, once immediately after cold boot in OS X, and then once (after all my antivirus and spyware software finished loading) in Win XP Professional (Bootcamp), both in fully updated CS2 installations. The results really show what to expect on the Mac Pros once CS3 is out and Universal next year:
(Time to complete 21 filter tests)
OS X in Rosetta: 227 sec
Win XP native: 110 sec
Yes, that's more than twice as fast. In fact, it'll likely be even faster. My OS X Photoshop install is running its scratch disk off a SATA RAID, but the Win XP install is running scratch on a single SATA/2 drive. Not sure how much PSBench 7 hits the scratch disk, but I did hear disk activity during the tests. (the std PSbench test uses a 10MB image, although the official site has downloads that use up to 50MB image)
My Mac Pro is a Quad 2.66 with 2GB RAM (4x512MB installed by Apple).
Vader "
The Aug. 24th news page had his previous notes on Mac Pro 2.66GHz vs Dual 1.8GHz G5 Photoshop CS2 Filter tests
This comes from http://www.xlr8yourmac.com/ ... but it gives you an idea of how fast the new machines can be.
jeffryscott
2006 Rally Course Champion: Expedition Trophy
new iMacs
Scott,
Apple announced new iMacs - including a 24-inch for 1999. New chips, new size screen - killer machine.
Scott,
Apple announced new iMacs - including a 24-inch for 1999. New chips, new size screen - killer machine.
Scott Brady
Founder
Now look at that! Glad I waited a few more days. That 24" will be perfect, and can even take 3gig of RAM now too.
I just wish I was not in this software black hole. I will feel kind of silly buying a $3,000 Mac only to install windows and CS2 for windows just to get processing speed.
I just wish I was not in this software black hole. I will feel kind of silly buying a $3,000 Mac only to install windows and CS2 for windows just to get processing speed.
jeffryscott
2006 Rally Course Champion: Expedition Trophy
expeditionswest said:
It will be worth it - when photoshop comes native, this thing will scream. The new iMac has a 64-bit processor, just like the MacPro (albeit not as powerful or fast). This is going to be a screamer.
Enjoy!
Scott Brady
Founder
The decision has been made, and thanks so much to Pasquale, Jeff and Bill for your thoughts and recommendation. Ultimately, my brother from another mother (Pasquale) helped me come to a final conclusion. Buy the best you can afford (or even a bit over) and cry once.
So what did I just do? :yikes:
iMac, 24-inch, Intel Core 2 Duo
Part Number: Z0DD
Apple Wireless Keyboard & wireless Mighty Mouse + Mac OS X (US English)
None
NVIDIA GeForce 7600 GT 256MB SDRAM
Accessory kit
500GB Serial ATA Drive
3GB 667 DDR2 SDRAM - 1x2GB, 1x1GB
2.33GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
SuperDrive 8X (DVD+R DL/DVD±RW/CD-RW)
Estimated ship: 5-7 business days
Delivered within 5 business days after shipping
AppleCare Protection Plan for iMac - Auto-enroll
Part Number: S2302Z/A
Estimated ship: 1-2 business days
Delivered within 5 business days after shipping 1
I sure hope we like this mac, as it just cost me a 1996 Discovery 5-speed with cloth interior and factory steel wheels.
So what did I just do? :yikes:
iMac, 24-inch, Intel Core 2 Duo
Part Number: Z0DD
Apple Wireless Keyboard & wireless Mighty Mouse + Mac OS X (US English)
None
NVIDIA GeForce 7600 GT 256MB SDRAM
Accessory kit
500GB Serial ATA Drive
3GB 667 DDR2 SDRAM - 1x2GB, 1x1GB
2.33GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
SuperDrive 8X (DVD+R DL/DVD±RW/CD-RW)
Estimated ship: 5-7 business days
Delivered within 5 business days after shipping
AppleCare Protection Plan for iMac - Auto-enroll
Part Number: S2302Z/A
Estimated ship: 1-2 business days
Delivered within 5 business days after shipping 1
I sure hope we like this mac, as it just cost me a 1996 Discovery 5-speed with cloth interior and factory steel wheels.