Reasonable Mods For Carrying Heavy Things

[JSKepler]

Of course I would never run over GVWR on purpose. But, supposing I was close to GVWR and was hiking from the truck and found 1,000 lbs of buried Spanish gold up in the Sierra Madre? I would naturally want to bring that gold home to donate to a museum. What mods could I make to 'prepare' for that happening, just in case I 'accidentally' go over GVWR.

I have a 2004 F350 SuperDuty 4x4 Diesel Short bed. GVWR is 9,900 lbs and vehicle weight is 7,700. Gives 2,200 lbs payload. Tires are load range E so I'm okay there. Axles are well under 'accidental' overages. So while I can't actually raise the payload, and would never imply that I have, what might I do to give myself a false sense of security for carrying maybe 600 lbs of gold over the GVWR? I've got decades of wrenching and mod'ing experience but I'm new to trucks, and diesels, and campers.

What I know about so far are air bags, Timbrens, sway bars, and extra leafs. (Using a Torklift/FastGun tiedown system.) I'd prefer to start simple and get more complicated as I learn about how the truck carries this camper- er, treasure. When I find it. What have folks found works better, Timbrens or air bags? The truck already has a pretty beefy sway bar. Is there anything I should do up front? Do I need to beef up the bed rails? Are there any other mods I might do other than sell the truck and start over? It's a super low-miles pre-DEF and pre-DPF rig and I was very lucky to find it. Maybe put in an axle from like a 2007 which has higher axle load ratings?

Actually, the same model of this truck had gained 1,500 lbs of payload by 2007 when Ford switched to the even less-reliable and more-hated 6.4 Powerstroke. I'm wondering if they actually changed anything or if they just weren't seeing payload failures so kept pushing up the GVWR spec? As an engineer myself I know this is how specs sometimes work. It's not so much a design as how far they could push it before it brakes. With thousands of trucks on the road they'd have some really good statistics. The truth about how they do this is in the safe along with the origin of COVID and The Grassy Knoll.

 

[Mickey Bitsko]

Don't know for sure and I can't prove it.
90% of trucks carrying slide in campers or ancient treasures are, at or over gvw.
Seems like there's a bit of semantics involved.

Edit: dump the camper, fill the bed with gold.

 

[rruff]

What I know about so far are air bags, Timbrens, sway bars, and extra leafs. (Using a Torklift/FastGun tiedown system.)

I have an upgraded leaf pack from Boise Spring on the way. Something similar could surely be bought from a local spring place, but they have a lot of experience with 2nd gen Tundras, so I went with them. $550 plus tax, shipping, CC fee. Removes the overload and adds 3-4 leafs per side.

I'd also highly recommend shocks with high digressive damping. It will still lean on a sustained curve (exceeding the speed limit is not an issue), but it's very secure and controllable in maneuvers. Mine are Ironman FCPros. I removed the swaybars.

I have airbags now, and if you are taking the camper off and want a good ride, I think they are a good option. I have the Torque brand that cost ~1/2 Firestones, and they work fine. I have cheap cradles as well.

 

[Peter_n_Margaret]

2 options that can be used together or separately.
1. Add coils over the springs. Cheaper and more reliable than air bags, just not adjustable. Check that your chassis can accept the loads.
2. Change the TOP leaf (only) thickness. I changed from 8mm to 10mm and the difference was much more than expected.

Neither of the above have any effect on interleaf friction.



Cheers,
Peter
OKA196 motorhome

 

[gator70]

Military trailer - cheap - high ground clearance

 

[mog]

and found 1,000 lbs of buried Spanish gold up in the Sierra Madre? I would naturally want to bring that gold home to donate to a museum.

For a one off recover 'mission', certainly if you headed into the nearest town or village and announced loudly in the Cantina of your find, many of the locals who are a resourceful and hard working people, would be very willing to help. Especially as your intent is very philanthropy.


Some may or may not have badges.

You know someone had to do that, so I figured I would get it out of the way A good thread topic, presented in an entertain way.
Certainly if you know ahead of time you need a lot of extra capacity (long boondocking, etc) a trailer is certainly the safest bet. For a truck only load, start with the heaviest GVWR that works for you. Certainly easier to complain about the ride of an F550, than upgrade a F350/350.

 

[yamaha225]

I have a fairly similar truck to yours. Mine is a 1999 F-350 regular cab long bed with the 7.3 diesel. GVWR is also 9,900 lbs. However, I’m curious about your vehicle weight. The last time mine was weighed was a few years ago and I still had the stock bed, but it weighed about 6,700 pounds with me in it. I’m going to get it weighed again soon so I’ll post back once I do.

Regardless of your truck weighing more though, I can say that mine has been substantially over GVW on more than one occasion without issue. All of the instances were hauling dirt or gravel in the bed. I’ve probably had about 4,500 pounds on the bed which probably put the truck between 11,000 and 12,000 total. Would I drive across country like that? Probably not, and I intend to keep my camper weight down as low as possible when I build it, but I do know that these trucks can haul more than their GVW indicates. It’s obviously smart to stay under the axle and tire ratings, but going over on the GVW a little isn’t the end of the world.

The stock F-350 springs are more than capable of hauling more than GVW. I never came close to touching the bump stops with that much weight. What I did when I rebuilt the truck though was switched to F-250 springs for a better unloaded ride. Then I’m planning on getting airbags to supplement when I put the camper on or haul something heavy. I think airbags are the best option due to their adjustability. I bet you’d be surprised what it will haul with the stock F-350 springs though.

 

[henrys]

In another thread you mentioned that you were interested in a NL 8-11 and that you'd only be a few hundred pounds over. I think you're only looking at the dry weight figure of an 8-11 which is about 2500-2800# depending on the model. You'll easily be 500-1K# heavier than that once you're fully loaded. I have a northstar arrow with a sticker dry weight figure of 2900#. By the time I fill up water tank, propane, camping gear, food, etc it weighed 3800# (verified with a CAT scale). My truck as a 4200# payload though so it's not a big deal.

FWIW I did carry it on an older 2003 ram 2500 for about 6 months and I was definitely overloaded by quite a bit. However, I was within tire and axle limits. The truck actually carried the weight fairly well with airbags and stableloads. Just keep an eye on your frame mounts, springs, wheels, etc and you'll probably be OK.

 

[rgv]

Don't know for sure and I can't prove it.
90% of trucks carrying slide in campers or ancient treasures are, at or over gvw.
Seems like there's a bit of semantics involved.

Edit: dump the camper, fill the bed with gold.

Haha I’m in the dump camper camp as well. Alternative is passengers can walk? (leave some water!!)

Seriously though, being 10% over on a domestic one ton is inconsequential if truck is in decent shape overall.

I’m at 10,000 lbs on a Chev 2500HD before cramming two quartered up moose into the camper going home and don’t even give it a thought.

 

[simple]

You are asking in a round about way how to make your vehicle carry more weight. I imagine some of GVWR sticker is to comply with the vehicle classification system and is not the actual limit of its capacity.

Spec out the springs to do what it is intended. If you are truly concerned about a surprise situation, you can go a long way at a slow speed with the frame resting on the axle bump stops or inflate some air bags. I saw someone recently that had rear coils and they inserted some cheap footballs to achieve a little more capacity.

Safety is a relative issue and has been debated extensively here and other places. The relative argument is that the safest would be no payload and becomes less "safe" as you add weight. Of coarse there is a weight limit and there are ton more variables. Type of road, driver skill, oversized tires etc.

 

[JSKepler]

In another thread you mentioned that you were interested in a NL 8-11 and that you'd only be a few hundred pounds over. I think you're only looking at the dry weight figure of an 8-11 which is about 2500-2800# depending on the model. You'll easily be 500-1K# heavier than that once you're fully loaded. I have a northstar arrow with a sticker dry weight figure of 2900#. By the time I fill up water tank, propane, camping gear, food, etc it weighed 3800# (verified with a CAT scale). My truck as a 4200# payload though so it's not a big deal.

FWIW I did carry it on an older 2003 ram 2500 for about 6 months and I was definitely overloaded by quite a bit. However, I was within tire and axle limits. The truck actually carried the weight fairly well with airbags and stableloads. Just keep an eye on your frame mounts, springs, wheels, etc and you'll probably be OK.

You are right about the weight. The wet weight is 2,800 and that doesn't include supplies, clothes, etc. That'd be 3,000 pounds at least, putting me 800 pounds over weight, around 36% over. I'm looking for someone to tell me that's okay, or can be handled with this or that mod, when my gut is telling me that it's not okay. My gut is rarely wrong, the benefit of age and trying lots and lots of things along the way. Biggest problem is occasionally not listening to my gut and then I get bit.

The 2018 Lance 825 I've looked at is 2,200 pounds wet, which, amazingly, is right at my payload spec. Add a few hundred pounds of gear and food and I'm a little under 10% over weight. I've been avoiding doing the math because numbers don't lie. I just like the NL more than the Lance. Then again, the Lance is $10K cheaper...

 

[IdaSHO]

From somebody that has reliably traveled more than 150k miles well over max GVWR, and more than 50k at near 20% over max GVWR on the current truck,
I can say dollar for dollar, with safety and reliability in mind, without a doubt for any "modern" 3/4 or 1-ton your best upgrades will be in the form of suspension and tires.

The current truck is a 9900lb GVWR 2011 F250 (SRW) that weighs about 8500lbs without the camper.
Loaded and wet with the camper we typically travel with near 7k lbs on the rear axle and 5k on the front axle.
We run the highest load index LT tires you can get, a "35" in the form of a 285/75r18 with a load index of 129 (4080lbs) per tire.
I've also upgraded the trucks suspension appropriately to carry the load.
The truck rides on coils (front) that are good for 3300lbs (each)
and rear leafs good for 4400lbs (each)
I also run heavy duty shocks, Monroe Monomax front and rear. Though I am going through fronts in less than 20k, so I may try out a HD Bilstein next go around.

 

[rruff]

That'd be 3,000 pounds at least, putting me 800 pounds over weight, around 36% over. I'm looking for someone to tell me that's okay

You need to be researching regarding your particular truck.

Since you have a heavy diesel.... the current practice regarding GVWR is to simply set a number and subtract the curb weight. IOW, the diference in GVWR between your truck and the gas model will be the difference in engine weight. Since all your weight added will be at the rear axle with a shortbed, assume that all the camper weight (wet and loaded) is on the rear axle. If the load vs curb on the rear axle doesn't exceed your axle rating, then I'd do the appropriate suspension and tire upgrades and cease to worry.

Note also that the axle rating (like all the ratings) is based on the bone-stock vehicle. It's possible that the axle itself isn't the weak link at all for the axle rating, but rather the suspension or tires.

I read up on my particular vehicle and found several people with long term service with >3,000 lb loads on a truck like mine which has ~1,400 lb payload. I also saw and spoke to a couple who was living in this truck with a ginormous camper (at least 5,000 lb loaded), and they said it was fine. "The airbags helped a lot"....

I haven't weighed it so I don't know, but mine handles great with a big camper and load.

There are a huge number of Tacomas out there that are 100+% over payload, and exceed the axle rating by a lot as well. I don't believe that is wise, but it isn't a safety issue unless you are an idiot. Many RVs and trucks are going to be far less maneuverable and stable and slow to brake than your truck with sensible suspension mods.

Also, GVWR is a manufacturer CYA warranty and liability number that pertains only to the bone-stock vehicle, and doesn't apply to private none commercial citizens as far as the law is concerned. Cops can ticket you if you are egregiously obviously stupid, and gawd only knows what lawyers might try if you run over children or cute puppies...
🤣

 

[BajaSurfRig]

I also run heavy duty shocks, Monroe Monomax front and rear. Though I am going through fronts in less than 20k, so I may try out a HD Bilstein next go around.

What HD Bilsteins are you thinking of running? I need new shocks in the worst type of way and cant bring myself to buy fancy external reservoir custom shocks…. I am lighter than you but not by much.

 

[IdaSHO]

What HD Bilsteins are you thinking of running? I need new shocks in the worst type of way and cant bring myself to buy fancy external reservoir custom shocks…. I am lighter than you but not by much.

Im not interested in fancy shocks either. I also have a suspicion that the last couple blown shocks (before suspension upgrades) had been destroyed by bottoming out.

From what I understand, the 4600 and 5100 series shocks are the same, except for suggested ride height, be it stock or lifted. He heavy duty coils I have on this truck resulted in about a 2” lift, so Ill likely try out the 5100.