Rebuilding an XJ 4.0--in Hemi Orange!
- Thread starter BuckeyeBullet
- Start date
jeepdreamer
Expedition Leader
How do you like the Spectre CAI? I've been thinking of using one of those to route my snorkel to the TBI and deleting the factory airbox.
88Xj
Banned
Just my 2cents worth...
I haven't had 1 first hand but have first hand experience. They are pretty pricey way to go & a rather smaller filter, gain wise..hardly..sound ya..but with any intake you get sound.Filters get dirty/clog up here quickly in the desert...there is something like this.
http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f9/tj-hummer-intake-write-up-buick-airbox-473981/
Small airbox from a donor car @ a junkyard....or a small inline air filter for a car. K&N makes one but they also have a small-ish filter. Using a small donor airbox would be best option.
I'm using a windstar air box..if you google "jeep widnstar intake" You should get plenty of pics & links. I search through the images and the links so I get a wealth of ways to do this & that..doing 1 way vs another. The windstar box has something like a 4" opening on the back..2.5" front. Definnetly will move more than enough air for us. Its decently small, round..fits pretty easily & isn't much of an eye sore & a big old bulky square box would be.
Useful link: windstar intake
http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f9/searching-windstar-airbox-thread-708147/
Buckeye you gotta build your leafs around your jeep. If you plan to carry weight all the time then you wanna build you leafs slightly beefier. It will ride a wee bit stiffer unloaded, but will carry weight without sagging. IF you underbuild them & carry too much they will sag & wear out fast!
I would look for a heavier overload..probably a Mj one..but compare it to the Rodeo or S10/Dakota ones as well..maybe take pics and post them & we can all help you decide? I would get a leaf pack off a Rodeo though..they are slightly skinner than Xj leafs, 2.5" wide- XJ while Rodeos are like 2.4xx. Its hasn't been an issue for many so no worries! Get them & a good looking overload leaf.
Then you build your pack..XJ main with new bushings, rust sanded/wire wheeled/coated with graphite paint/coating or leaf liners (good idea) Then you cut down the rodeos main leaf..cut the eyes, treat the same way. You want it about 1/8" longer than the XJ main. So when you put the rodeo main under the XJ main it should be slightly longer...you do this because..well your main leaf is probably pretty weak as is..so your using the Rodeo leaf to help support it. Ever see guys with AAL's that aren't full length? There main leaf starts to bend back on itself..we don't want that here, so this prevents it! This also happens from people using stock leafs & a BIG shackle lol.
So now you have refurbished Xj main, Rodeo main, then you mix & match your leafs till you get what you want for lift height. And obviously you throw in the thicker overload. Some advice, fewer, thicker leafs will ride rougher, & not flex as well & pending the leafs may or may not carry weight. More, thinner leafs will ride better & flex better usually & again pending your setup will/won't carry weight without sag....too many leafs however can & will limit flex as well, so do inverted overloads. Its all a mix & match game!
My buddy found himself a good set of stock leafs. They still had a little arch to them. *if your leafs are bending negative..or in a sadface-
around the axle then they are no good. If they are flat :| or in a smile around the axle then they will be alright for a bastard pack, the better the smile the better you will be He did a Mj shackle & Xj/Xj bastard pack. Mixed 2 Xj packs together to get the lift he wanted.
His setup is XJ main, xj main, xj 2nd, xj 2nd, xj overload & the Mj shackle. His flex is decent but he can't carry near the weight I can without sagging. I have a OEM tire carrier, steel wheel & 31..about 100lbs with carrier & wheel which is constant, always on the jeep. I have carried roughly 550lbs worth of weights, gym weights when we moved and it gave me an awsome figure of exact weight & how much it sagged! With tire carrier & wheel on jeep still, 100lbs. I loaded 375lbs worth of weight & sagged .5" measured with a tape measure. I was happy with that honestly. Rides a wee bit stiff but I'm willing to give that up for the extra carrying capasity.
Its really gonna be a mix & match process for you though to get the height you want & the carrying capasity you want. If you plan to constantly carry weight then you want to build them for that..it will ride stiff unloaded but if your carrying weight 80% of the time then build them for that & they will last much much longer.
A xj main, s10/dak main, xj 2nd, xj 3rd & a thick overload would give around 3.25" with a stock shackle..but would probably ride stiff as hell. Would carry quite a bit without sag though. A Xj main, rodeo main, xj2nd, x3rd, thick over would give around 3.25" with a stock shackle & should ride pretty decent. The difference is the Rodeo leaf is thinner than the S10, but also is arched more. So your lift comes from the arch vs the thickness of the leaf added! It will be stiffer than stock but it won't be unbearable at all!
Shocks will also play a big role in ride quality. If I didn't have the OME leafs..I would do the rodeo main option..however I would ditch the Xj 3rd leaf & replace it with a rodeo leaf as well to try and get more carrying capasity..I would also leave in the stock shackle
If you want post up pics when you get a chance of you leafs. Toss is 50-75lbs & snap us a pic of your leafs..that let us know if you have decent enough leafs for a bastard pack or not. You toss in the 50-75lbs cause well when daily driving you usually have about that in there..recovery gear, first aid kit, ect ect..that should always be in the jeep at all times. So your just compensating that weight is all.
Last edited:
BuckeyeBullet
Observer
The Spectre CAI is a really neat idea I think. It's the cheapest CAI I could find other than making my own, and it pulls air from the cowl area which is better anyway (higher, cooler). Because it's cheap, it isn't perfect. For some reason they made it using fabricated angle bends in some places instead of smooth curved pieces all over. That hurts airflow and looks and seems unnecessary to me. It is very thin-wall material and easy to dent or bend accidentally. The Jeep cowl is only open on the driver's side, yet this CAI pulls air from the passenger's side. Incoming air has to flow around the wiper motor to get to the CAI inlet, and that seems very restrictive. I fully intend to extend the inlet out to the top of the cowl on the passenger's side so the air is coming from that disturbed area below the windshield rather than having to pass through the cowl vent which can get full of debris and stuff. Mine will be capped with a tractor-style pre-cleaner to keep dust intake down. That arrangement would also let me use a snorkel on the right A-pillar. Another option is to holesaw one or more big holes directly through the passenger's side cowl area above the CAI inlet and open the plastic cowl cover panel, but then you have to make sure it's never covered by snow.
My biggest concern with this CAI is it didn't fit under the hood. I had to raise the back end of the hood 3/8" in order for it to shut, and it still touches the CAI filter can. That to me is a big downside. I will probably end up with a hood bulge or ram air-style hood later on just so this thing fits. I'm also going to have to make a gasket for the inlet where it screws into the firewall because especially with that raised hood, rain will run right down onto the inlet and seep in. The product has the right idea just doesn't seem well designed. I don't know about the older Cherokees since Spectre makes a slightly different CAI that pulls air from the driver's side for those XJ's.
Thanks for the bastard spring info 88xj. I'll be refering back to your posts when the time comes. The springs on mine aren't reverse sagged yet but they're pretty well flat with no extra weight on them.
My biggest concern with this CAI is it didn't fit under the hood. I had to raise the back end of the hood 3/8" in order for it to shut, and it still touches the CAI filter can. That to me is a big downside. I will probably end up with a hood bulge or ram air-style hood later on just so this thing fits. I'm also going to have to make a gasket for the inlet where it screws into the firewall because especially with that raised hood, rain will run right down onto the inlet and seep in. The product has the right idea just doesn't seem well designed. I don't know about the older Cherokees since Spectre makes a slightly different CAI that pulls air from the driver's side for those XJ's.
Thanks for the bastard spring info 88xj. I'll be refering back to your posts when the time comes. The springs on mine aren't reverse sagged yet but they're pretty well flat with no extra weight on them.
88Xj
Banned
Ya you may look at your local yards and see if you can find any better ones? Or if any local jeeps may have a set. If not then yours will do...just try to start with the best..OR you could always do OME leafs..118 per leaf pack, plus bushings! When my pack wears out I'll be upping to the OME 3" HD set..
Hd set has a lighter spring rate than the medium duties. SO it'll ride better..the HD's have a inverted overload which makes the rate softer, & will still carry more weight. May flex sliightly less due to the inverted overload but I won't mind that!
Black Dog
Makin' Beer.
When I was doing the lift on my XJ I was just going to do an AAF and shackle, but my stock leaf springs were totally shot. My dad was friends with the manager at the local truck and trailer parts store so he took some measurements on my leafs and got me a set of heavy duty high load capacity leafs at cost, I don't remember what I paid but it was cheaper than $118 each. Unless you know the right people like that you probably won't get a much better deal, but that kind of store or supplier is also an option
BuckeyeBullet
Observer
Yeah the lift is going to have to wait. Just got done breaking in the fresh engine, but it wasn't as easy as that. Fired up on the first crank no problem but it wasn't getting any oil. I have an oil filter relocation kit on it and thought maybe it would take a little longer to get oil up, but the pressure gauge was reading 80psi. I shut it down after a few minutes because it just didn't feel right. It's a no-no to shut down during cam break-in but I know what an engine with no oil sounds like. Turns out the filter adapter on the engine block was stamped backwards in relation to oil flow direction. It took me a little bit to figure that one out, but it was the manufacturer's error. I switched the lines and completed the break-in but the damage was already done. There's a real bad knock in the motor and it runs like crap.
Be really careful if you buy products from Earl's Performance, apparently they don't do QC. To date I've spent about 9mos of evenings and weekends and $4500 rebuilding this motor. To say I'm in a bad mood would be a little bit of an understatement...
Be really careful if you buy products from Earl's Performance, apparently they don't do QC. To date I've spent about 9mos of evenings and weekends and $4500 rebuilding this motor. To say I'm in a bad mood would be a little bit of an understatement...
jeepdreamer
Expedition Leader
HOLY CRAP!!!!!!!! Man that blows chunks.... So sorry to hear that man! While I'm guessing the answer is a no... I'm sure you asked Earls to pay for fixing it?
BuckeyeBullet
Observer
Yes I've asked Earl's, have yet to hear back. They're a Holley brand now so I'm not too hopeful I'll even hear back. But an update on the Jeep, I did a compression test today when I calmed down a little and that much looks good. All over 120psi the first time around and over 140 the second. I'll pull lifters tomorrow or the next day and see if they're collapsed and how the cam looks. It's possible all that happened is a collapsed lifter, but that knock sure sounded like a con rod.
Anyone know if I can drop the oil pan out with the engine in the vehicle? At first glance that looks possible even if I have to raise the engine a little. Ha, there's another reason to lift the suspension, easier engine access.
Anyone know if I can drop the oil pan out with the engine in the vehicle? At first glance that looks possible even if I have to raise the engine a little. Ha, there's another reason to lift the suspension, easier engine access.
88Xj
Banned
I did it with my 2" budget boost..Put jeep on jack stands & disco your shocks & lower control arms
This will allow the front axle to droop out as far as you need to wiggle it on out! Disc shocks & lowers, lift jeep body up as high as needed! Drop said pan.jeepdreamer
Expedition Leader
No need to disco the arms... Just the shocks and the steering drag link. You may have to either jack the axle away from the frame a little to get more droop depending on how stiff the control arm bushings are. The other help is to undo the cross member bolts and raise the tail end of the tranny/t-case. The oil pan likes to hit the bottom of the trans bellhousing unless you raise the tail. I just did my 91 AND my 2001's RMS within the last month and a half.
And if you don't know... use zip ties to hold the pan gasket in place when getting it back up in there. Once its in place you can get some bolt started and snip the ties as you go. Keeps it from getting all catty whompass!!!.
And if you don't know... use zip ties to hold the pan gasket in place when getting it back up in there. Once its in place you can get some bolt started and snip the ties as you go. Keeps it from getting all catty whompass!!!.
jeepdreamer
Expedition Leader
whomp-***...
BuckeyeBullet
Observer
Thanks for the tips, dropping the pan is next. I pulled the valve cover yesterday and looked at the lifters. None of the rockers were overly loose, just normal. I rotated the engine a few times with a breaker bar to check all the rockers unloaded and they seemed fine. I was looking for a collapsed lifter and was hoping to pull them out to check the cam lobes too, but dangit I have to pull the head for that. This is the first engine I've worked on that requires the head to be off to pull lifters. Kinda sucks, really.
It'll probably be while before I get to drop the pan because this week I'll be with the Rocketheads team on the salt flats of Bonneville looking to set some more land speed records. We run a chopped '52 Buick. If any of you are in New Mexico, we're on the front page of the New Mexican today...
It'll probably be while before I get to drop the pan because this week I'll be with the Rocketheads team on the salt flats of Bonneville looking to set some more land speed records. We run a chopped '52 Buick. If any of you are in New Mexico, we're on the front page of the New Mexican today...
BuckeyeBullet
Observer
Ok, an update. Besides what I'm talking about here, I'm making progress on the rear bumper but don't have any photos yet. I've been lucky finding some great bumper steel in the scrapyards around here for dirt cheap. I have less than $15 invested in the rear bumper so far...and I have nearly all the pieces I need including the store-bought 2" hitch receiver.
So the cam looks good, the lifters look good, compression is very good, and today I dropped the oil pan to get a look inside and try to eliminate that knock. I checked side clearance on all the rods and checked each rod bearing for clearance using plastigage and the factory manual for the specs. All the bearings were within the "preferred" spec in the book and well within allowable limits. They were all at .002" clearance which is fairly perfect (range .001-.003" with .015-.002 ideal on stock journal dia). The only issue I found, and it won't cause a knock, was the #1 rod bearing had a weird pitting going on. It wasn't deep at all, didn't even deform the plastigage less, but there are spots where the outer layer is gone and copper is showing. They're just spots though, not grooves or scrapes, 1mm across or less. Looks like that would cause premature wear so I'm going to replace that one, but that's the only problem. The oil pan showed only very minimal metal shavings which I'd consider normal for a freshly broken-in engine. Doesn't look like anything came apart. But there's still a knock in it from somewhere and I'm running out of things to check.
The bores looked great and I saw that the pistons still had their anti-wear coatings (on the skirts anyway). The remote oil filter hoses were dripping oil on my while I worked. They're new (from Trans-Dapt), only used once and the engine hasn't even run in a couple weeks, yet they were dripping from the swivel end. I ordered some AN fittings and hose to hopefully get rid of that whole issue. Anyone know if there's a good place in the block to drill for an oil pressure sending unit? I really don't like that the factory one only tells you if the oil pump is working, not if the engine is actually getting any oil pressure. Major weak spot, IMHO. My '60s Dodge V8 gets its oil pressure reading from the cam gallery which is much more useful.
BTW I had to drop the shocks, sway bar, spring retainers, and the lower control arms at the axle to get enough clearance to remove that oil pan. I also had to jack the axle away from the frame as far as the brake hose would allow, while turning the wheels all the way to the left so the front of the pan could clear the steering damper. Wasn't an easy job and I scratched up that fancy orange oil pan quite a bit :-/
So the cam looks good, the lifters look good, compression is very good, and today I dropped the oil pan to get a look inside and try to eliminate that knock. I checked side clearance on all the rods and checked each rod bearing for clearance using plastigage and the factory manual for the specs. All the bearings were within the "preferred" spec in the book and well within allowable limits. They were all at .002" clearance which is fairly perfect (range .001-.003" with .015-.002 ideal on stock journal dia). The only issue I found, and it won't cause a knock, was the #1 rod bearing had a weird pitting going on. It wasn't deep at all, didn't even deform the plastigage less, but there are spots where the outer layer is gone and copper is showing. They're just spots though, not grooves or scrapes, 1mm across or less. Looks like that would cause premature wear so I'm going to replace that one, but that's the only problem. The oil pan showed only very minimal metal shavings which I'd consider normal for a freshly broken-in engine. Doesn't look like anything came apart. But there's still a knock in it from somewhere and I'm running out of things to check.
The bores looked great and I saw that the pistons still had their anti-wear coatings (on the skirts anyway). The remote oil filter hoses were dripping oil on my while I worked. They're new (from Trans-Dapt), only used once and the engine hasn't even run in a couple weeks, yet they were dripping from the swivel end. I ordered some AN fittings and hose to hopefully get rid of that whole issue. Anyone know if there's a good place in the block to drill for an oil pressure sending unit? I really don't like that the factory one only tells you if the oil pump is working, not if the engine is actually getting any oil pressure. Major weak spot, IMHO. My '60s Dodge V8 gets its oil pressure reading from the cam gallery which is much more useful.
BTW I had to drop the shocks, sway bar, spring retainers, and the lower control arms at the axle to get enough clearance to remove that oil pan. I also had to jack the axle away from the frame as far as the brake hose would allow, while turning the wheels all the way to the left so the front of the pan could clear the steering damper. Wasn't an easy job and I scratched up that fancy orange oil pan quite a bit :-/