recovery gear for canter

[mab]

my canter build is nearing the stage where it can be registered and go on road (and more importantly, off road), so I am now thinking about recovery gear that will handle the weight. I am hoping for some advice/suggestions from the forum community as to suitable ratings for snatch straps, winch and accessories and where I can buy them.
I have decieded to install a PTO and hydraulic winch.
I have been told that an air jack would be the best option for lifting in the event of a tyre change or recovery situation.
I have an onboard compressor (15cfm) and tank, so I intend to use a 3/4 rattle gun for wheel nuts (but using the correct torque when doing them up )
Appreciate any replys

Cheers
MAB

 

[bptp7270]

Hi,

Nice looking truck. Im not sure about winches, but from some light research in to the hydraulic option I seem to recall that the PTO was the hard (expensive) bit to find. Is that a suspension seat for the passenger or just a better seat and how we're you able to mount it with the engine access?

Anthony

 

[blackduck]

Looking good
WRT winches I looked into them some time ago and weighed up the options
In reality unless you get bogged for a living you'll probably never use it but its a nice to have just in case
I looked at hydraulic but couldnt justify the cost, Warne do a 15000lb electric but in Aus prepared to pay big dollars ($3000+). I settled for a 16500lb Mako, it cost about $1K ish and so far has worked well for removing 2 Landcruisers, 1 Patrol and a tree stump.
One thing to remenber if you go electric, do your sums when you choose power lead, the extra distance from front of vehicle to battery will push up the cable diameter a tad, and a high amp battery isolator allows you to disconect the winch from power when not in use and prevent mishaps,
Im not sure id be using an air jack to change tyres and ended up giving mine away (never used it)
a snatch strap or two is heaps faster
my best friend is my long handled shovel
it helps me get out of bogs, comes in handy when you gotta bog and can be used to keep the missus in line :wings:
Also been looking at "maxtrax" but havent taken the plunge yet

 

[fg4oz]

My winch has come in very handy. Had to pull 8 pallets of sandstone up a clients driveway. Nothing off road yet. Only down side was at the start of the year we were invited to the tennis and I thought I'd treat my wife and drive in style (in the truck). We parked in a shopping centre car park. When we came back I started reversing and there was a bit of resistance. Some little buggers had unwound the winch, wrapped it around a heap of trolleys in a trolley bay. Lucky I got out to have a look otherwise I would have ripped about 50 trolleys out.


I too am interested in a snatch strap for my fg649 with a max gvm of 6t.

 

[Bandicoot]

Recovery options

My experience with our EarthCruiser bsed on SWB Canter FG, having recently completed the Anne Beadell, Connie Sue, Sandy Blight and Simpson deserts here in Oz, would be as follows starting with "first choice" and moving to last choice:

• Reducing tyre pressures (I've been down to 12 psi hot with the 16 inch Michelins (I originally had) and 17 inch Hankooks (I now have), but purely for extraction).
• Shovel (short handle square nose with "T" on top for good grip, digging and twisting is better than long handle pointed nose without T-handle, IMO)
• Maxtrax (just a great piece of kit; I carry four of them)
• Heavy duty snatch strap
• Winch (which I don't have on this machine, but have had several before. This would be my last choice).

Rick

 

[gait]

depends where you're going, what you're doing, and whether traveling alone or in a group. If I had to describe the difference its probably that between a long distance expedition over rough tracks to see the country and four wheel driving - though of course they aren't mutually exclusive. I see my 4wd as part of recovery rather than part of pushing the boundaries to extremes. To get us out of trouble, not in. Also, the outcome of being bogged in Mongolia (for us) is potentially greater than bogged in Aus. Either way I'm likely to walk through the mud and water and sand first rather than have to recover after. Having said that I do drive considerable distances in 4wd.

Thus, I figured a winch would be overkill for me traveling many countries as a lone vehicle and I didn't want the weight. Clearance plus good exit/entry angles have been more important for my use. Having said that I figured the most effective designs for a winch allow it to be used either front or back. If I thought I needed one as part of going forwards I'd probably think twice about my route.

One day I may add diff locks, at least to the front.

Recovery gear is a shovel, maxtrax, rope (normal and snatch), bits of wood, and snow chains (even though heavy, not needed yet, to be fitted before getting into trouble, and a legal requirement some places). The ropes are a "Y" with two attachment points front and rear. Only the single strand is snatch if necessary. Willing to be corrected, I figured WLL rating of twice GVM for ropes/straps/shackles/fixing points, the breaking point is much higher. Hopefully someone has better fixing points than I.

The difference between normal rope and snatch is whether I feel the situation is in control. That's not always possible when foreign (to me) languages are involved and/or when "gung ho" is around. Also whether snatch is necessary.

I tightly packed the air jack in cool weather then drove through hot weather. The little bit of air helped push the floor out of the hatch and the jack is sitting on a track somewhere waiting to be recovered (sic!). I haven't missed it and the repaired storage space now has better uses. Possible use was to raise wheels to get something solid underneath when bogged, it was on its limit for weight. I figure first step for me in recovery is to make a cup of tea (even if only metaphorical) so I'm never in too much hurry. I don't have anywhere on the chassis to attach a high lift jack.

So far the times (touch wood) I've needed recovery gear with the Canter are first time out when free wheel hub wouldn't engage after rear end slipped (enough vegetation from nearby worked), to help overloaded Mongolian trucks up river banks (shovel, maxtrax and rope), to help Russian students who drove on to the wrong part of a Crimean beach (their long climbing rope), and to dig an Aussie Landcruiser out after youngsters had been having fun and drove a bit fast (2 min with shovel and a bit of advice about wheel spin).

The shovel is also useful when the only alternative is to bury black water from cassettes.

I'm sure I'll need my recovery gear for me one day or I wouldn't carry it and hopefully it will be sufficient for the sorts of situations I'm likely to get into.

 

[Aussie Iron]

Shovels and blocks of wood are good but for me I wouldn't go of road without a winch. Tyres with suitable tread have a lot to add to the equation of not getting stuck as well as experience. You can use ground anchors or trees to tie of to, even your trip partners vehicle if you have to. And yes I do use it of road that's what I bought it for. My winch is rated at 20,000 lbs. and is mounted under the back facing forward, the cable is run around a couple of pulleys and out the front. I can also pick a loop of the drum and double line it out the back if needed. Some pictures are in this thread. http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/threads/81539-We-Canter-ed-to-the-tip Dan.

 

[mab]

Thanks everybody for the prompt replys.

Re Anthonys question about the seats, they are stratos, non suspension, driver and passenger. The passenger seat will fold up to allow access to the engine hatch. Initially thought that the bar behind the seat would have to be modified to allow this, but the installers (ATW) got it to work with out mods. They also made up a console to go in place of the 1/2 seat in the middle, clever buggers.



It seems every one believes in the shovel and a good look at the problem. Taking the time assess the situation is the best bit of gear in the kit. I have on more than one occassion missed the obvious when stuck and in a panic. I'll take that advice onboard.

I hope to be able to incorporate a "shovel drawer" in the tray, so I can't leave it behind, and have room to fit maxtrax in there as well.

With a possible total weight of 6000kg (13000 and a bit pounds) finding snatch straps suitable for the job could be an issue. Is there a rule of thumb in relation to snatch strap rating and GMV? 1.5x? 2x?

I guess the same applys to winches.

I probably should have learned from previous experience that too much recovery gear can make one feel invincible. I have a habit of find soft places to drive. Some years ago I took a Sunday drive in my Hilux, which had a winch. I was following a power line track and came to a salt pan about 200m wide that the track went across. I walked out and had a bit of a look and figured I would get through, so full of confidence I went on only to sink up to the side steps in the middle of the salt pan. So I ran out the winch wire via a snatch block and via my extension strap to the closest tree, all just making it with three wraps left on the drum. Plugged in the remote and....nothing! I didn't have my tool kit in the car. After searching around under the seats I found a piece of insulated wire, which I bared with my teeth, and then bridged around the circuit to find the fault. Turns out the high current isolator key switch I install under the bonnet, to stop people "interfering" with my winch, had failed. I stood on the roof and got enough phone signal to call home. My poor wife who was in bed with a headache agreed to ride her bike 5kms to meet me at the closest point. I then walked a kilometer through the mud and mangroves, swam across a creek at high tide and met her at the boat ramp and graciously accepted the shifter she had brought. After I had swam and walked back to the Hilux I attempted to undo the nuts holding the lugged wires on the switch so I could bridge it out. However because the truck was so deep in the slop it wasn't insulated from ground so every time I went to put the shifter on I got zapped. Found gloves in with my recovery gear and got the job done and winched out ok. When I got home and was cleaning up the winch and winch wire I discovered that the attachment bolt on the end of the winch wire was missing, so I was very lucky all round, I suppose. Still Married too!

I do alot of beach driving on the weekends and intend on doing extended trips to some remote areas of the Cape, towing my boat, so the possibilities of getting into trouble are high, given my track record.

Hopefully it will only ever be used to help others.

MAB

 

[blackduck]

Some little buggers had unwound the winch, wrapped it around a heap of trolleys in a trolley bay.

Think yourself lucky Ben. The latest trick for gen Y when thy're bored is to spool out your winch cable run it over the vehicle to the tow bar then short the control box to pull in the cable
apparently its hilarious
yet another reason to re introduce capital punishment

 

[SkiFreak]

It's a nice urban myth Stu, but I have yet to see any photographic/video proof that anyone is actually doing it.
Mind you... as I have written on my website, it is totally plausible and ridiculously easy to do, especially on the Chinese winches.
In my opinion, an isolator is an absolute must for any winch installation.

 

[mab]

Yes, an isolator...just don't buy a cheap one.

 

[SkiFreak]

I too am interested in a snatch strap for my fg649 with a max gvm of 6t.

ARB make a 15,000Kg snatch strap, which should do the job nicely.

 

[SkiFreak]

Yes, an isolator...just don't buy a cheap one.

I bought a BEP MDO-720, which can handle 500 amps continuous. This unit is also motorised, so you can engage/disengage it from inside the cab.
The manual version is cheaper, but not as cool...

 

[Alastair D(Aus)]

Rather than go for a really big heavy winch a medium sized one (~12000) with a snatch block (pulley) and an extra length of rope or extension strap is a good way to go. Yes it slows the retrieve speed down, but it saves weight, gives flexibility like being able to change the pull direction and is cheaper.

I have a Warn 15000 on the front of my Isuzu NPS300 and as of yesterday a Runva 12000 on the rear. The rear one was going to be a small one for lifting the spare wheels but I found the cost of a full size one not a huge amount more. My vehicle is only in the build stage so it will be a while before it all gets used.

I agree with Skifreak about the isolator. Regardless of the myths I am more concerned about electric fires in an accident having seen what happened to a 4wd when he had a front smash which shorted the heavy 0BS winch cable. The vehicle was totally burnt out when oil was ignited by the sparking from the cable.

My other recovery gear, much of it to be transferred from my other 4wds, is
long handled shovel - the only way to dig
small shovel - good for under a vehicle and for other basic needs
large piece of heavy canvas to lie on
snatch straps, winch extension, tree protector, bridle, snatch block, cable blanket for front wire, rear is plasma
leather gloves
strong jack plate for sand & mud
high lift jack and good small jack - I am looking at a new pneumatic over hydraulic since I have onboard air. My current jack is sized for a Lancruiser not 6000Kg GVM Isuzu
Matrax

cheers

 

[Amesz00]

ARB make a 15,000Kg snatch strap, which should do the job nicely.

i use the 11t version for my fairly light (around 4t) fg, which has proved effective at retrieving the truck from being 38" tyre-deep in mud (lesson for future; metre deep mudbog + peer pressure to try it in 2wd on 60psi tyres = one very bogged truck..)
so if your truck is at or close to gvm, the 15t version should work good.
IMHO using a hi-lift on one of these trucks is absolutely begging for a serious accident..
bogmats can be a day-saver.. steel or maxtrax.
wouldnt go anywhere without a shovel (although last time i was out, went to take a crap and broke my friends shovel digging some sand! looks like it had a knot right above the steel part. something to watch out for..)

Andrew