Recovery thoughts, ideas, advice
- Thread starter JMacs
- Start date
Metcalf
Expedition Leader
The problem with this attitude is that it can bleed over to the trail.
There was a large group out on Kane Creek as part of the EJS event a few years back. A gentlemen with a full size bronco ( albeit a little under-equipped for that run ) was stuck on Hamburger Hill for about 4 hours in the middle of a group of almost 50 vehicles. The gentlemen in the Jeep ahead of the Bronco refused to let anyone hook up a recovery strap, or winch, to his vehicle. This caused a VERY long delay for everyone on the trail and it was a complete mess. The Jeep guy was coming up with all kinds of excuses....and he wouldn't even try to pull out of the way to let another vehicle get access. The trail is tight enough in that location....and has a good bit of exposure. It was a complete cluster that messed up a lot of peoples day. That trail run didn't get back to town till after 11pm at night. Many people had to turn around and go back out the bottom with small kids and such.
It would have taken 5 minutes with a strap to make everything go WAY smoother.
MOguy
Explorer
Won't be an issue with me. I don't do large groups. I only wheel with friends and family who are properly equipped. I won't leave my buddies behind but if your in a one ton oversized dually or a 1984 Ford Tempo up to yoeu floor boards in snow and mud in a ditch I am not your man. I am not ripping your tempo apart and my 3900 lb Wrangler isn't moving your big truck.
Now if you are in a normal size vehicle with legit recovery points and nobody or nothing get hurt I will help.
Equipment has its limitations. When you overdo it you're only asking for trouble. You could end up doing more harm than good.
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MattF350
Observer
Been pulled out by an f250...very minor force on it, however.
Metcalf
Expedition Leader
My 2007 Ford F350 has 3x 12mm metric bolts per tow ring. At proper torque that is a LOT of clamping force and shear force honestly....
A single 12mm fastener, even only in 8.8 grade, is still good for about 7000lbs in single shear.
3x that is 21000lbs minimum without any clamping force figured in.
That is per hook.
I'd be more worried about the frame holding together honestly since all those fasteners are clustered toward the end of the rail.
quickfarms
Adventurer
This is what I carry, it's called a cluster hook.
I also carry a short length of chain to get the strap out from under the vehicle and two shackles
I also carry a short length of chain to get the strap out from under the vehicle and two shackles
MOguy
Explorer
This is what I carry, it's called a cluster hook.
I also carry a short length of chain to get the strap out from under the vehicle and two shackles
let's say you can hook into the vehicle, you recover it and get it back onto the road and you find out it isn't drivable?
At work our SAR instructors ( many are current volunteer or former fire fighters) use various hooks and chains ( and other equipment) to stabilize a vehicle before they rescue / recovery a person or rescue randy. Depending on the situation they can cause further damage.
They use hooks for recovering vehicles but that usually they will go under a vehicle and your chain running from the hook out could cause damage to bumpers or other skirting. I am just not doing that. At that point let the pros with all the appropriate equipment do the job, those hooks just may not be enough. A $100 dollar (unless your insurance covers it) tow is cheaper than body parts.
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Metcalf
Expedition Leader
Do you think the tow truck is going to have a magic way to attach to the same vehicle that will prevent damage? If the vehicle is stuck, especially off the road, the tow operation isn't going to guarantee that damage won't happen during the recovery. Most of the time they try....other times they could care less.
If you don't have enough experience to have a good feeling about the recovery by all means pass. I've helped a LOT of people out of ditches for decades. Generally everywhere I have lived it is just friendly practice to help other people out when you can. I've been able to help the majority of the people I have come upon, but I have also had to pass on a few. I also always stop to help just to see if the people are ok. It is amazing how many people don't even stop to do that these days.
MOguy
Explorer
I would rather the Tow Truck guy have a crack at it and the damages be between the driver and the guy getting towed. The tow guy will be better equipped than I will. Even then, unless you are blocking traffic the tow guy isn't going to get you if the conditions are bad.
The OP is talking about an on road situation in a bad environment, not a day on the trail. Two very different situations. If you can take a strap and a clevis and or a hook and get it done, do it. There are just times I won't.
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Metcalf
Expedition Leader
The situation the OP posted about seems like a no-brainer to me. The vehicle isn't rolled over or a hundred feet off the ditch. It likely only needs a WEE bit of help honestly. If that seems scary by all means pass. If the person you are helping wants a hand ( get them on video with your phone saying you aren't liable for any damage if you want ), by all means this shouldn't be something that scares people away from helping other people. Sheesh.
DaveInDenver
Middle Income Semi-Redneck
Every situation dictates the right approach. I've helped and been helped plenty of times on pavement and on trails so I try to help but there's been situations where offering a shovel or phone was the right thing to do instead of a strap or winch. My main concern with helping people on roads is me getting creamed by another out of control driver so calling a tow truck or at least having a cop with flashing lights there has seemed more appropriate.
MOguy
Explorer
When you help somebody get unstuck you never know what might happen.
abc13.com
Kansas City Chiefs player Jeff Allen tracks down 'Dave' who helped dig him out of snow, gives him playoff tickets
Dave said he didn't realize the guy he was helping was Kansas City Chiefs player Jeff Allen.
abc13.com
Metcalf
Expedition Leader
Sure, can't help everyone all the time, but I am surprised to see this many people in a mainly off-road forum about being prepared and equipped to deal with about anything.....saying they will just call for help? I don't get that part of things. Maybe I have been lucky enough to have good experiences doing this kind of stuff all my life. I was a Wildland Firefighter for a decade in a past life, I feel pretty comfortable working in higher stress situations with more exposure perhaps. While I don't want to urge people to do something they aren't comfortable with, I also don't want to encourage people not to be a good ambassador to this side of the vehicular lifestyle either. Even if you don't feel comfortable helping to extract the vehicle, at least stop to see if the people are ok. They might be pretty dang cold, their cell phone might be dead, they might have a kid in the back seat that is cold, they might have been on the way to the hospital for all we know. Please don't just drive by. I would say most of the winter road extractions I have done took five minutes with strap or maybe a little shovel work.
DaveInDenver
Middle Income Semi-Redneck
Completely agree with everything you say about being a good human but just saying because we have hammers doesn't mean everything has to be a nail.
shade
Well-known member
Some Yaktrax on your feet, a little sand, and a shovel will get many people going. Trying that before a tow makes sense to me.
If a tow is required, you'll have had some time to think about doing it yourself while shoveling & shoving.
If it's in a dangerous spot, the best you can do may be to call for help and not get tangled up in it yourself.
I think that's a reasonable, simple, and safe policy for all involved.
If a tow is required, you'll have had some time to think about doing it yourself while shoveling & shoving.
If it's in a dangerous spot, the best you can do may be to call for help and not get tangled up in it yourself.
I think that's a reasonable, simple, and safe policy for all involved.