REI, Politics and Public Lands

[Woods]

My bad on the executive salaries. In the past REI did not publish executive salaries. There was pressure by journalists for REI to publish the information that public companies are required to publish by law. I have also read that Sally Jewel has brought a lot of transparency to REI. I would guess that this is one of the results.

Again, the SC and WEG are not on the list that you posted a link to. I can only conclude that the list of grant recipients is not comprehensive. I would really like to shop at REI again. As soon I see Blue Ribbon Coalition on the list, I'll do just that.

Maybe evil is too strong a word, but I still don't understand the angst towards REI.

Again not to seem argumentative, but REI does publish both executive salaries and a complete list of to whom and how much they donated. It does seem like a lot of the allegations against REI are based on hearsay.
Donations
Executive compensation

 

[highdesertranger]

ok I posted a similar thread on this a while back. I got a lot of you must be crazy responses also. on that list of grants that rei gives is there one that supports multiple use? have you ever known an environmental group to call it quits after they won their objective. no they always find a new cause and another and another. they are sucking us dry and will never stop. so we can either wake up, or sell our 4x4's and buy prius's and drive on paved roads to approved parks and hike on approved trails. if you think I am full of something then you are just fooling yourself. highdesertranger

 

[Woods]

Rando, I appreciate your posts and the points that you bring up. You haven't made me change my position, however you've made me think more deeply about the issue.

HDR - thanks for the post. That sums up, what I believe to be the truth of the matter.

 

[Rando]

Isn't is equally possible that REI did not donate to the SC and WEG in 2012? How do you know that they made monetary contributions to these groups in 2012? Secondly, the programs they did at one point support both with the Sierra Club and with WEG where both projects to get inner city kids out into the outdoors. How is that a bad thing?

I really doubt they will donate to the BRC, just as I doubt they will donate to the American Experimental Aircraft association, these groups are not there key market. I really don't think it is the 'us and them' mentality as a lot of people here want to make it out to be.

My bad on the executive salaries. In the past REI did not publish executive salaries. There was pressure by journalists for REI to publish the information that public companies are required to publish by law. I have also read that Sally Jewel has brought a lot of transparency to REI. I would guess that this is one of the results.

Again, the SC and WEG are not on the list that you posted a link to. I can only conclude that the list of grant recipients is not comprehensive. I would really like to shop at REI again. As soon I see Blue Ribbon Coalition on the list, I'll do just that.

 

[bearman512]

Maybe evil is too strong a word, but I still don't understand the angst towards REI.

Again not to seem argumentative, but REI does publish both executive salaries and a complete list of to whom and how much they donated. It does seem like a lot of the allegations against REI are based on hearsay.
Donations
Executive compensation

Rando did you see my first post?
Believe me when I say I LOVE REI but I had to make a stand and to this day I will go into a store just to look around.

I quit buying from REI back in 1994 when I went to the local Albuquerque store and seen the Green Party poster van parked in the middle of the parking lot. I did not think anything about it until I went to check out and I asked why the van was parked there. The young man at the check out counter told me that REI supports the Green Party and asked if I would make a donation. I asked for the manager. I asked the manager why they support the Green Party and he went on to tell me everthing I would expect to hear from a Duck Squeezing Tree Hugger and that REI at the corporate level donates 5% of all profits to the GP. I had 2K in merchandise on the counter that I had just paid for with a credit card and I immediatly said thanks for all the road closings you will be causing and asked for my money back!
From that point on I have made it a point to inform all my friends, and all my military co-workers primarily the ones that purchase thousands of dollars worth of equipment from REI and asked them to use anyone but them.
For the most part I think I have helped keep a cool million or so out of thier hands for the last 15 years.

 

[Rando]

I think someone at REI was pulling your leg on this one. As I mentioned earlier, one of the core principals of the Green Party that they do not accept corporate donations. Secondly, there is no record of REI giving money to the GP anywhere, and they would certainly have to report giving 5% of their profits (which I assume would be millions of dollars) both in REI's annual reports and the Federal Elections Committee. The links I provided above show where REI spends its charitable dollars, you and I may not agree with all their donations, but the vast majority seem to go to good causes.

The good news is - you can shop at REI again!

Rando did you see my first post?
Believe me when I say I LOVE REI but I had to make a stand and to this day I will go into a store just to look around.

 

[bearman512]

I think someone at REI was pulling your leg on this one. As I mentioned earlier, one of the core principals of the Green Party that they do not accept corporate donations. Secondly, there is no record of REI giving money to the GP anywhere, and they would certainly have to report giving 5% of their profits (which I assume would be millions of dollars) both in REI's annual reports and the Federal Elections Committee. The links I provided above show where REI spends its charitable dollars, you and I may not agree with all their donations, but the vast majority seem to go to good causes.

The good news is - you can shop at REI again!

Probably NOT as there are many other places I can make my purchase.
You can go there and make purchases and believe in what you want to believe this is your right. Rather than imply I lied just say it. If I could produce the picture from 1994 I would post it.
Dare I ask your age and where you have lived for last 20 years?
If you believe everything you see, hear and find on the internet then good luck as I fear that this country my home we call America is looking more like the movie Idocracy!

I agree with Woods and will differ before I say something that will get me banned from the portal!

As soon I see Blue Ribbon Coalition on the list, I'll do just that.

Originally Posted by Woods
My bad on the executive salaries. In the past REI did not publish executive salaries. There was pressure by journalists for REI to publish the information that public companies are required to publish by law. I have also read that Sally Jewel has brought a lot of transparency to REI. I would guess that this is one of the results.

Again, the SC and WEG are not on the list that you posted a link to. I can only conclude that the list of grant recipients is not comprehensive. I would really like to shop at REI again. As soon I see Blue Ribbon Coalition on the list, I'll do just that.

 

[Rando]

I am not suggesting you didn't see what you saw in 1994. However, I stand by the fact that there is no evidence that REI has given any money to the Green Party any time recently (which would have to be reported by law).

I am not trying to change your mind or your spending habits, and clearly I am not going to change your mind. I just want to clear up some misconceptions about what I consider to be a good and responsible company for anyone eles who stumbles upon this thread. It is internet fora like this that are the seed for a lot of one sided or miss-information.

Probably NOT as there are many other places I can make my purchase.
You can go there and make purchases and believe in what you want to believe this is your right. Rather than imply I lied just say it. If I could produce the picture from 1994 I would post it.
Dare I ask your age and where you have lived for last 20 years?
If you believe everything you see, hear and find on the internet then good luck as I fear that this country my home we call America is looking more like the movie Idocracy!

I agree with Woods and will differ before I say something that will get me banned from the portal!

As soon I see Blue Ribbon Coalition on the list, I'll do just that.

 

[bearman512]

I am not suggesting you didn't see what you saw in 1994. However, I stand by the fact that there is no evidence that REI has given any money to the Green Party any time recently (which would have to be reported by law).

I am not trying to change your mind or your spending habits, and clearly I am not going to change your mind. I just want to clear up some misconceptions about what I consider to be a good and responsible company for anyone eles who stumbles upon this thread. It is internet fora like this that are the seed for a lot of one sided or miss-information.

Well stated Rando and I have just returned to the campfire.
Maybe I will stop by the REI store in Albuquerque this weekend as I have not set foot there since 94 but fear I will feel like a prostitute in church. LOL

 

[Woods]

Rando, It's difficult to find news articles that reflect the interests of the offroad community. For the most part we are a politically silent part. We have very little funding. Read the New Mexico legal article, previously posted. They have one attorney, and it looks to me like they will not have the money to finish the law suit. I believe, that if Big Green had been allowed to participate, the New Mexico Offroad group would never have stood a chance. The cost would have been WAY to great. The only way you hear our side of the story is through the internet. People speaking of our own experiences. Spend some time on the trails. The trails are being closed, more and more. That's a fact. Who's pushing this? Most are environment groups. Many of which receive support from REI. REI states what they do. The sell products for Human Powered Outdoor activities. I don't have time to research how extreme each of REI's beneficiaries is. I'm certain that lot's of them want trails closed to motorized vehicles though. It's common sense. Sally Jewell is currently being vetted by the press. Most all the honest press (listing both her pros and cons and not just one side) say that she's an extreme environmentalist.

Except the Green Party deal for what it is. It's a personal experience that lead to Bearman no longer shopping at REI. Don't doubt for a second that the employee didn't say what he said, or that it was a joke. If an employee said it and it was a joke, he certainly would have stated that it was a joke as soon as Bearman told him whey he was returning his purchases. I wasn't there, but I can know this because it's the only thing that makes sense. The employee must have been mistaken. He probably heard it from someone else. Bearman's experience is certainly an indication of the problem though. Read this article and let us know what you glean from it: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324590904578290402197980818.html

I am not suggesting you didn't see what you saw in 1994. However, I stand by the fact that there is no evidence that REI has given any money to the Green Party any time recently (which would have to be reported by law).

I am not trying to change your mind or your spending habits, and clearly I am not going to change your mind. I just want to clear up some misconceptions about what I consider to be a good and responsible company for anyone eles who stumbles upon this thread. It is internet fora like this that are the seed for a lot of one sided or miss-information.

 

[Rando]

I read the article and take it for what it is, a editorial (ie opinion piece) from someone on the opposite end of the political spectrum from Sally Jewell, saying what you would expect them to say. This is a great example of the political ideologs on both sides of the spectrum that would like to cast this as an 'us vs them' issue. I am a hiker, biker, climber, paddler, skier, fisher AND overlander. I don't see this as an us vs them issue, and there is much more in common between REI (and the Sierra Club) and overlanders than they are appart. We are all into experiencing wild and scenic places, and seeing them stay wild and scenic. Yup a trail may be closed here and there, and other trail systems may be formalized and improved and protected. It is part of the give and take, however we should all be looking to protect a common asset from development, pollution and misuse.

Read this article and let us know what you glean from it: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324590904578290402197980818.html

 

[Woods]

Your statements are accurate. The point of me posting the link is not the facts. It's showing an opposing view that is different but similar to the likes of the Blue Ribbon Coalition. Does looking at it this way help you understand why we don't shop at REI? Ours is a view that is rarely published in the press. Our's is a grass roots movement. We are unorganized and poorly funded. Therefore, I chose to link an editorial from a group that is well funded and stands in opposition in a different but similar way - Big Business. If this doesn't make sense to you, then I wonder if you're really trying to understand where I'm coming from, or just making an effort to argue an opposing ideological view point.

I consider myself an environmentalist. I overland, (among other reasons) because I appreciate the environment. I'm out there teaching my kids to offroad, camp and enjoy the outdoors responsibly. There are groups who institutionally believe what I do and how I do it is irresponsible. REI has supported such organizations.

I read the article and take it for what it is, a editorial (ie opinion piece) from someone on the opposite end of the political spectrum from Sally Jewell, saying what you would expect them to say. This is a great example of the political ideologs on both sides of the spectrum that would like to cast this as an 'us vs them' issue. I am a hiker, biker, climber, paddler, skier, fisher AND overlander. I don't see this as an us vs them issue, and there is much more in common between REI (and the Sierra Club) and overlanders than they are appart. We are all into experiencing wild and scenic places, and seeing them stay wild and scenic. Yup a trail may be closed here and there, and other trail systems may be formalized and improved and protected. It is part of the give and take, however we should all be looking to protect a common asset from development, pollution and misuse.

 

[DrSaabaru]

Some additional facts:

http://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/summary.php?id=D000042366

http://www.opensecrets.org/usearch/index.php?q=sarah+jewell&sa=Search&cx=010677907462955562473%3Anlldkv0jvam&cof=FORID%3A11&siteurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.opensecrets.org%2Forgs%2Fsummary.php%3Fid%3DD000042366

http://query.nictusa.com/cgi-bin/dcdev/forms/C00370221/873819/#DETAILED

http://www.rei.com/content/dam/documents/pdf/Financial%20Statements/2012%20REI%20Financial%20Statements.pdf

And another opinion:

http://www.wildwilderness.org/docs/picket.htm

According to opensecret.org, the bill REI was most active in lobbying for was the "United States Optimal Use of Trade to Develop Outerwear and Outdoor Recreation Act" or U.S. OUTDOOR Act, which would "amend the Harmonized Tariff Schedule of the United States to provide for the duty-free treatment of certain recreational performance outerwear."

I agree completely that you need to keep a close eye on corporations and that you shouldn't take your dollars to companies whose political activities you don't like. So if you don't like REI, by all means don't shop there. I won't buy my Jeep parts at Off Road Warehouse because I don't like their religious activities. It's probably not completely rational, but I'm stubborn that way, and I don't need to justify it to anyone.

What you're telling us here though is that we shouldn't shop at REI no matter what our politics are because they're an existential threat to our hobby. You have to understand that we'd want to see evidence of that before we change our behavior. This isn't about disrespecting your own personal choice of where to shop and it's definitely not about calling you a liar.

 

[Woods]

I don't understand why you posted those links. I didn't learn anything from them, other than the Green Party is in a pretty bad place financially.

I'm not telling anybody to do anything. I'm only asking people to learn and think about this issue.

Some additional facts:

http://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/summary.php?id=D000042366

http://www.opensecrets.org/usearch/index.php?q=sarah+jewell&sa=Search&cx=010677907462955562473%3Anlldkv0jvam&cof=FORID%3A11&siteurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.opensecrets.org%2Forgs%2Fsummary.php%3Fid%3DD000042366

http://query.nictusa.com/cgi-bin/dcdev/forms/C00370221/873819/#DETAILED

http://www.rei.com/content/dam/documents/pdf/Financial%20Statements/2012%20REI%20Financial%20Statements.pdf

And another opinion:

http://www.wildwilderness.org/docs/picket.htm

According to opensecret.org, the bill REI was most active in lobbying for was the "United States Optimal Use of Trade to Develop Outerwear and Outdoor Recreation Act" or U.S. OUTDOOR Act, which would "amend the Harmonized Tariff Schedule of the United States to provide for the duty-free treatment of certain recreational performance outerwear."

I agree completely that you need to keep a close eye on corporations and that you shouldn't take your dollars to companies whose political activities you don't like. So if you don't like REI, by all means don't shop there. I won't buy my Jeep parts at Off Road Warehouse because I don't like their religious activities. It's probably not completely rational, but I'm stubborn that way, and I don't need to justify it to anyone.

What you're telling us here though is that we shouldn't shop at REI no matter what our politics are because they're an existential threat to our hobby. You have to understand that we'd want to see evidence of that before we change our behavior. This isn't about disrespecting your own personal choice of where to shop and it's definitely not about calling you a liar.

 

[DrSaabaru]

I don't understand why you posted those links. I didn't learn anything from them, other than the Green Party is in a pretty bad place financially.

Sorry, I wasn't trying to be obscure. I was just looking for documentation that REI is trying to close down all trails and couldn't find it. The first was a list of donations to political candidates from REI employees and a report about lobbying activities and the second was the same, but specifically for Sarah Jewell. The money mostly went to Democratic politicians (Obama and Larsen at the top of the list) and to lobbying on trade bills. Seems harmless, but whether you object to that would depend on your political orientation, I guess. The Green Party report indeed shows that they're a mess financially -- no one's donating 5% of anything to them. The REI financial disclosures give some idea of how much money they have, where it comes from, and where it goes -- they're not donating 5% of anything to anyone. And the last one is by a genuine wilderness zealot, someone who really does want to close down all trails, calling for a boycott of REI because they support motorized outdoor recreation.

I'm just learning more about the situation and posting what I find here, not really trying to make a point.