Removing rear seats to increase payload capacity?

[Mickey Bitsko]

How about some 'lack of common sense insurance '
In today's world they'd make a killing.
Op, whatever you do, don't consider a larger truck, just get opinions
from people that have NO skin in the game.

 

[jadmt]

How about some 'lack of common sense insurance '
In today's world they'd make a killing.
Op, whatever you do, don't consider a larger truck, just get opinions
from people that have NO skin in the game.

never know I might have skin in the game...I might be on the same road he is...

 

[stevo_pct]

Personally, I'm following common sense by researching this topic before I buy anything. And I'm sharing what I'm learning here on this thread because the OP and myself are asking similar questions.

Common sense says that vehicle outfitters and camper manufacturers that have been installing campers on trucks for more than 20 years know a lot more than I do - and they seem to indicate a half ton truck can carry 10% over GWVR with E rated tires and air bags. They have skin in the game, by the way. They could be liable if they're outfitting vehicles and making recommendation that are unsafe.

Commons sense says that I should talk to others who are hauling pop up campers with half ton trucks to learn from their experience. Many of them are on this forum and have indicated that their trucks ride well with tire and suspension upgrades.

Common sense says that it's foolish to think your vehicle is safe if you're 100 pounds under GVWR but you're somehow negligent and breaking laws if you're 100 pounds over GVWR.

Common sense says that the engineers determine ratings with a large factor of safety built in. It would be great to hear from automotive engineers who have experience with GVWR and axle ratings. That's one of the reasons I'm asking about this topic.

Common sense says that, if some guy on the internet starts ranting about insurance and liability, you should follow up with someone who actually knows what they're talking about - the insurance company and the underwriting team. State Farm, by the way.

 

[phsycle]

Personally, I'm following common sense by researching this topic before I buy anything. And I'm sharing what I'm learning here on this thread because the OP and myself are asking similar questions.

Common sense says that vehicle outfitters and camper manufacturers that have been installing campers on trucks for more than 20 years know a lot more than I do - and they seem to indicate a half ton truck can carry 10% over GWVR with E rated tires and air bags. They have skin in the game, by the way. They could be liable if they're outfitting vehicles and making recommendation that are unsafe.

Commons sense says that I should talk to others who are hauling pop up campers with half ton trucks to learn from their experience. Many of them are on this forum and have indicated that their trucks ride well with tire and suspension upgrades.

Common sense says that it's foolish to think your vehicle is safe if you're 100 pounds under GVWR but you're somehow negligent and breaking laws if you're 100 pounds over GVWR.

Common sense says that the engineers determine ratings with a large factor of safety built in. It would be great to hear from automotive engineers who have experience with GVWR and axle ratings. That's one of the reasons I'm asking about this topic.

Common sense says that, if some guy on the internet starts ranting about insurance and liability, you should follow up with someone who actually knows what they're talking about - the insurance company and the underwriting team. State Farm, by the way.

Common sense says, these days, you should read the terms and conditions. ? Pay attention to the indemnification and limited liability sections.

 

[Mickey Bitsko]

People should carry insurance, People should not pretend their payload can
be made larger by, removing parts from the vehicle to make it lighter.
Using the heavier tire theory, putting e, g or h rated tires as mentioned will help some , but at the end of the day, you cannot safely make a Toyota tundra 3/4 ton.

 

[stevo_pct]

People should carry insurance, People should not pretend their payload can
be made larger by, removing parts from the vehicle to make it lighter.
Using the heavier tire theory, putting e, g or h rated tires as mentioned will help some , but at the end of the day, you cannot safely make a Toyota tundra 3/4 ton.

Actually, you can make your payload larger by removing parts (weight) from your vehicle. And it works the other way around, if you add parts to your vehicle (after market bumpers, winches, etc) that's taking away from your payload. My truck without the FX4 package (which adds a hundred pounds of skid plates) has about 100 pounds more payload on the door sticker.

I agree that adding heavier rated tires and airbags doesn't technically change the payload limit though.

If I get a pop up camper for my truck, I'm going to remove the back seat and tailgate because I don't need them, will want the extra space in the cab, and I might as well drop the extra weight.

 

[Dendy Jarrett]

Was it a commercial vehicle? Commercial is a completely different scenario than a passenger vehicle. Commercial has more serious consequence.

@billiebob brings a good point. You may not face criminal charges for being overweight may get you civil charges which could be 6 or 7 figures if people are injured.

No, It was a grey market Land Rover Defender 110 (deemed illegal to drive because it was imported and NOT DOT compliant). There may have been extenuating other circumstances but the bottom line was it was determined if he hadn't been driving an illegal truck, that the accident wouldn't have happened.
This could start an entire spin off thread about what makes and doesn't make a truck legal or illegal and what upgrades or modifications make a truck legal or illegal.

Regarding commercial trucks, this is why we see weigh stations. It's why many of us have suffered vehicular damage due to overloaded commercial tires shredding leaving damaging chunks spewed down the highway.

My intention here is not to take this discussion down a different path. It is literally to state that "just cause you can doesn't mean you should." Consider the consequences. Consider could you live with yourself if you erred way from safety and cost someone their life due to the poor decision. Lean towards the cautious side.

If this conversation takes a negative turn due to my comments, I'll remove them all or lock the thread. Let's keep it gentlemanly please. Thanks! DJ

 

[Mickey Bitsko]

This is a different discussion from the op.
Op wants to carry 2k full time, and he can, should he? THAT was the question.

 

[Dendy Jarrett]

This is a different discussion from the op.
Op wants to carry 2k full time, and he can, should he? THAT was the question.

Exactly -

 

[stevo_pct]

And if the truck can handle the weight safely, rides well, etc., then why shouldn't he?

I'm not saying that it can handle the weight safely, that's why I'm asking my questions and sharing what I've learned. But installers and folks who are currently carrying pop up campers on half ton trucks are telling me they handle just fine provided the tires and suspension are taken care of.

I guess the only way for me to know for sure is try it myself and if I don't like it, I'll upgrade trucks then.

 

[gkieser92]

I've followed this thread with curiosity, and I have no dog in the fight and no strong feelings toward either a Tundra or other truck in and of themselves. I also don't have much experience modifying truck suspensions. I do have a bit of experience with carpentry, and I think it has a parallel. When hammering a framing nail, I could use a lot of tools. With effort, I could use a ball peen, rock, claw or small sledge hammer. But using a framing hammer will do it quicker, safer, and with less effort. If I only occasionally do framing, it's probably not worth getting a framing hammer. If I do framing every day, it's silly not to get a framing hammer. A tool designed for a job will always do it better than a tool adapted for a job.

Rather than adapt a truck to carry more than it is designed/rated to, why not get a truck that is designed to carry what you want?

 

[rruff]

Rather than adapt a truck to carry more than it is designed/rated to, why not get a truck that is designed to carry what you want?

Because it's usually a lot easier to use what you have...

 

[gkieser92]

The OP was considering a truck purchase, so he's not stuck with something yet. He's considering buying a truck with a 1480 lbs. capacity for the purpose of carrying a 2,000 lbs. load, every day. Taking the time, effort and money that it would take to adapt a truck to continuously operate at 135% of it's rated capacity, plus the increased wear and tear, maintenance, etc. are quickly go into the area of diminishing returns vs. initially purchasing a truck with sufficient capacity. Just like I can use any hammer to drive a couple of framing nails, but it doesn't take long to make it worth buying a framing hammer.

 

[rruff]

The OP was considering a truck purchase, so he's not stuck with something yet.

Thanks for the reminder! For some reason I thought the OP was talking about a 1st gen Tundra he already had...

If I were to buy a 2nd gen access cab, 4x4 Tundra with a payload capacity of 1,480 lbs do you think I could get away with having it loaded down full time with around 2,000 lbs of camper + supplies by doing things like removing all the rear seats, tailgate (would have a slide in camper so no need for tailgate anyway), and upgrading the rear suspension?

I'm going to be moving into a slide in truck camper full time soon and really want a Toyota because of reliability, but the Tundra's payload capacity is just so bad. Brainstorming desperately before I cave and get an F250.

This was exactly my situation a few years back... only I was stupid and thought by removing the bed (and rear seats!) and building a relatively light camper, I would be under GVWR (7200 lb). Then later I made a list of "stuff" and added it up... whoa. Not a lot of mods and stuff, but it still adds up to over 1500 lbs! I'm hoping to squeak under the axle ratings now... which is 950 lbs over GVWR. It's a long bed, and the rear seat will be storage, so even distribution shouldn't be difficult.

I very seriously considered getting an F250-350 then. But I already had the Tundra, have fond memories of a '84 Toyota PU I'd overloaded and abused, and comparable F250s were at least $10k more... and I found an old thread on one of the Tundra forums where everyone raved about how great it was for hauling a camper. They were all seriously overweight. I think one guy even said he had over 200k miles on one that weighed 8800 lbs, with no issues. I talked to some Tundra + camper owners too... including a couple who were hauling an enormous camper and living in it. I asked him how it was, and he replied "oh, it's fine... great since we got the airbags." Apparently he tried it first with no suspension mods?! Yes, I'm getting new springs, shocks, airbags, and tires. But I would have done that with an F250 also. In the end I think it's very possible that the Tundra will have fewer issues overall, so I'm running with it.

But if I had it to do over, I'd get an F350 with a 7.3, 10spd, 4.30 gears, and add a mild lift, and 37s.

 

[WOODY2]

I haven't seen the word ' common sense ' .

Remember we are talking "overlanding' here sooo...