Removing rear seats to increase payload capacity?

[Porkchopexpress]

Common sense says that the engineers determine ratings with a large factor of safety built in. It would be great to hear from automotive engineers who have experience with GVWR and axle ratings. That's one of the reasons I'm asking about this topic.

I never practiced engineering but have an engineering degree. From my strength of materials classes I remember that different industries require different factors of safety. However, it would be an oversimplification to say that you are below the point of failure so you are fine. If you expose steel to a certain stress level, it will basically bend and recover with literally no harm done. If you exceed the steels flexibility, you will cause small fractures in the structure. So exceeding capacity by 10% could potentially reduce the lifespan of a vehicle by significantly more than 10%. Asking someone on this forum what the consequences of overloading a Tundra by 500 lbs or whatever is kind of pointless in my opinion.

 

[stevo_pct]

Asking someone on this forum what the consequences of overloading a Tundra by 500 lbs or whatever is kind of pointless in my opinion.

I have come to the same opinion ?

 

[tacollie]

And if the truck can handle the weight safely, rides well, etc., then why shouldn't he?

I'm not saying that it can handle the weight safely, that's why I'm asking my questions and sharing what I've learned. But installers and folks who are currently carrying pop up campers on half ton trucks are telling me they handle just fine provided the tires and suspension are taken care of.

I guess the only way for me to know for sure is try it myself and if I don't like it, I'll upgrade trucks then.

We stepped up from the Tundra to a 3/4 because we are adding more weight. We were completely happy and felt safe with the Tundra. If you have a half ton buy the camper and see how it does. If you're buying a truck to haul a camper start with more truck.

 

[Buddha.]

If I was going to full time in a truck camper I wouldn’t go less than a 1 ton. It doesn’t make sense to overload your truck 100% of the time. There’s no benefit to that.

 

[Paddler Ed]

This has a payload of nearly 1,000kg (I think it's 940kg) between unladen with me in it and GVM. Easiest way for me increase the amount it can carry is let the missus drive instead of me, and not go along - that would take the payload up to 970kg straight away.

Admittedly, it'd be slow as a sloth with a 1600cc petrol lump in it...

The 2.5 diesel might be a better option.

(Helpful comments as always!)

 

[bkg]

Because it's usually a lot easier to use what you have...

I'll argue this... it's almost always harder to make something you have into something you really need.

 

[bkg]

And if the truck can handle the weight safely, rides well, etc., then why shouldn't he?

I'm not saying that it can handle the weight safely, that's why I'm asking my questions and sharing what I've learned. But installers and folks who are currently carrying pop up campers on half ton trucks are telling me they handle just fine provided the tires and suspension are taken care of.

I guess the only way for me to know for sure is try it myself and if I don't like it, I'll upgrade trucks then.

It's analogy only, but...

i've towed many thousands of miles pulling my xtracab, 4runners, etc. I've pulled with a 5.9 cummins, 04 Tundra Doublecab, 11 Crewmax, 06 Tundra Doublecab, 07 Sequoia, 15 Crewmax, 16 F350 Powerstroke.

While i was technically within the tow ratings of all of the vehicles, though pushing the edge on the 1st gens, the amount of DRIVING EFFORT cannot be compared. Even going from the 15 CrewMax to the F350 was night and day difference.

So just because it can be done... and perhaps can be done within the fine print... doesn't mean it's safe, rides well, is recommended.

 

[stevo_pct]

So just because it can be done... and perhaps can be done within the fine print... doesn't mean it's safe, rides well, is recommended.

Definitely understood. In my case, I don't want to deal with a setup that is unsafe or doesn't ride well.

With respect to the engine power, transmission, and brakes, an F150 (which I have) or Tundra (which the OP is considering) should be fine hauling 2000# because these trucks are rated to tow over 10,000#. The version of the F150 I have is essentially the max tow package but with the 5.0 instead of the 3.5 ecoboost. From the perspective of braking and transmission, towing 2000# is the same as hauling 2000#, and a half ton truck can tow 2000 without much extra wear and tear on the brakes and transmission. Or at least it should be well within the design parameters.

So getting back to carrying 2000# of camper and gear, if the brakes and tranny are not the issue, and if the tires and suspension are upgraded, then what's the problem? I'm guessing the axle? I can't speak for the Tundra but carrying 2000# in an F150, I would be right at or possibly a little over the axle ratings.

I know an F250/350 would be better, but I have an F150 already and whatever I use for a camper also has to be my daily driver for now. It's hard to find good used trucks right now and I want to avoid giving up the gas mileage I get with the F150 (16-17 around town and 20+ on the highway) and the ride quality when not hauling a camper would probably be ******* with a 350.

But yeah, I get what many of you are saying. Being near the GVWR and/or axle rating 100% of the time, regardless of whether you're a little over or a little under, and regardless of whether or not the truck handles safely, is probably not good for the truck. Unless an automotive engineer chimes in and says, "don't worry about it, those trucks and axles are designed to carry way more than the ratings indicate."

 

[tacollie]

Definitely understood. In my case, I don't want to deal with a setup that is unsafe or doesn't ride well.

With respect to the engine power, transmission, and brakes, an F150 (which I have) or Tundra (which the OP is considering) should be fine hauling 2000# because these trucks are rated to tow over 10,000#. The version of the F150 I have is essentially the max tow package but with the 5.0 instead of the 3.5 ecoboost. From the perspective of braking and transmission, towing 2000# is the same as hauling 2000#, and a half ton truck can tow 2000 without much extra wear and tear on the brakes and transmission. Or at least it should be well within the design parameters.

So getting back to carrying 2000# of camper and gear, if the brakes and tranny are not the issue, and if the tires and suspension are upgraded, then what's the problem? I'm guessing the axle? I can't speak for the Tundra but carrying 2000# in an F150, I would be right at or possibly a little over the axle ratings.

I know an F250/350 would be better, but I have an F150 already and whatever I use for a camper also has to be my daily driver for now. It's hard to find good used trucks right now and I want to avoid giving up the gas mileage I get with the F150 (16-17 around town and 20+ on the highway) and the ride quality when not hauling a camper would probably be ******* with a 350.

But yeah, I get what many of you are saying. Being near the GVWR and/or axle rating 100% of the time, regardless of whether you're a little over or a little under, and regardless of whether or not the truck handles safely, is probably not good for the truck. Unless an automotive engineer chimes in and says, "don't worry about it, those trucks and axles are designed to carry way more than the ratings indicate."

Are you mounting the camper full time? That is a big factor IMO. If is mounted full time and that makes a difference imo. Your rear axle rating would be my concern. Try to stick in those constraints. With the camper you'll get similar mpgs to a F350 with a camper.

I don't think you should buy a truck until you have the camper and spend some time with the set up.

 

[bkg]

Definitely understood. In my case, I don't want to deal with a setup that is unsafe or doesn't ride well.

With respect to the engine power, transmission, and brakes, an F150 (which I have) or Tundra (which the OP is considering) should be fine hauling 2000# because these trucks are rated to tow over 10,000#.

Disagree with this statement. The Tundra (all trucks, for that matter) are only rated to tow that amount WITH a weight distributing hitch. So it's not actually putting 20% on the tongue, and subsequently the rear axle.

Semantics? Possibly.

 

[rruff]

So getting back to carrying 2000# of camper and gear, if the brakes and tranny are not the issue, and if the tires and suspension are upgraded, then what's the problem? I'm guessing the axle? I can't speak for the Tundra but carrying 2000# in an F150, I would be right at or possibly a little over the axle ratings.

The axle ratings on the Tundra are 4000 lb front and 4150 lb rear. Not sure how the 5700 lb curb weight is split, but if it's 60/40 (3420, 2280), then you can add 580 lbs to the front and 1870 lbs to the rear to hit the axle rating.

The only axle issue I've heard with Tundras is the rear bearings, but this doesn't appear to have anything to do with load, but rather manufacturing tolerance issues (preload).

 

[Dendy Jarrett]

This is a common argument over on the airstream forums. For example, someone wants to buy a 27 foot front bedroom airstream. 7800lbs with a 850lb tongue weight, but they only have an F150 (not nor no way capable of that sort of weight once you add people and goods). But because they are heck bent on that 27 floor model and "just because the salesman said it would pull it," that's what they decide to do. And yes, certainly an F150 will pull it. So will a Volkswagen with the right hitch. But will they pull it with safety in mind? Can they stop it in an emergency situation? Can they maneuver in a split second? The answer is no. The truck is not engineered for this sort of weight nor size. And they are putting themselves or others at risk by believing so. Many, many photos on the inter webs of folks pulling a 30 foot airstream with a minivan because they needed the room for all the family, but many of those photos are of airstream rollover accidents.

Bottom line, use common sense. Weigh the risks.

I liken it to using a screw driver to drive a nail because the hammer is across the room, and you can't be bothered to go get it.

D-

 

[Ducstrom]

I've followed this thread with curiosity, and I have no dog in the fight and no strong feelings toward either a Tundra or other truck in and of themselves. I also don't have much experience modifying truck suspensions. I do have a bit of experience with carpentry, and I think it has a parallel. When hammering a framing nail, I could use a lot of tools. With effort, I could use a ball peen, rock, claw or small sledge hammer. But using a framing hammer will do it quicker, safer, and with less effort. If I only occasionally do framing, it's probably not worth getting a framing hammer. If I do framing every day, it's silly not to get a framing hammer. A tool designed for a job will always do it better than a tool adapted for a job.

Rather than adapt a truck to carry more than it is designed/rated to, why not get a truck that is designed to carry what you want?

This made me laugh.
To answer your analogy....
Some people already own a claw hammer, or really like brand "X" hammer that doesn't make a framing hammer, so they want others to confirm that they've been using a claw hammer or ball peen from brand "X" for framing and it's working great for them.

If you ask around enough you'll find people who are happy using a rock for a hammer.
Like you said, if you're doing it all the time just get the right tool. Heck, I could probably modify a potato to drive some framing nails if I only had to do one or two. Lol

 

[tacollie]

This is a common argument over on the airstream forums. For example, someone wants to buy a 27 foot front bedroom airstream. 7800lbs with a 850lb tongue weight, but they only have an F150 (not nor no way capable of that sort of weight once you add people and goods). But because they are heck bent on that 27 floor model and "just because the salesman said it would pull it," that's what they decide to do. And yes, certainly an F150 will pull it. So will a Volkswagen with the right hitch. But will they pull it with safety in mind? Can they stop it in an emergency situation? Can they maneuver in a split second? The answer is no. The truck is not engineered for this sort of weight nor size. And they are putting themselves or others at risk by believing so. Many, many photos on the inter webs of folks pulling a 30 foot airstream with a minivan because they needed the room for all the family, but many of those photos are of airstream rollover accidents.

Bottom line, use common sense. Weigh the risks.

I liken it to using a screw driver to drive a nail because the hammer is across the room, and you can't be bothered to go get it.

D-

A lot of F150s have higher tow ratings and payload ratings than a Power Wagon. Oddly enough we considered a Power Wagon to replace the Tundra to carry outt 1200lbs FWC but decided if we're spending some money we should get a truck with a higher payload than a Tundra.

 

[stevo_pct]

Disagree with this statement. The Tundra (all trucks, for that matter) are only rated to tow that amount WITH a weight distributing hitch. So it's not actually putting 20% on the tongue, and subsequently the rear axle.

Semantics? Possibly.

A weight distribution hitch is not required to tow 2000#. Not even close. My point here was just with respect to brakes and transmission. I don't think braking or stopping distance is a factor with respect to hauling 2000# in a half ton truck because the brakes are designed to handle towing that is much higher than that. At some point when towing (I think it's 5000# in Colorado) trailer brakes are required, but from the perspective of brakes and transmission performance, if a truck can tow 3000# just fine, then it can certainly haul 2000# just fine - again from the perspective of brakes and transmission.

My point here is that, with respect to this topic (using a half ton truck to haul a camper), it doesn't seem like braking power, stopping distance, or transmission is an issue.