Renegade concept at Detroit Auto Show
- Thread starter kayadog
- Start date
Box Rocket
Well-known member
Give me a little more credit than that. As I said before, I have no problem with a jeep winning the competition, and frankly in many ways I'd prefer that. It creates competition among manufacturers which is a good thing. The problem with this one is I don't think it motivates Toyota to up their game at all because the Jeep clearly underperformed in the offroad areas. The reviewers even said that they would choose the 4Runner if they were having to tackle tough terrain.
.
Obviously I like Toyotas but my comments are not a biased "fanboy" point of view. I still haven't seen any argument that remotely shows how the Jeep could logically win. Again it comes down to credibility. I want publications like this to provide accurate information for consumers so they can make good choices. This review did not do that. If someone can give me a real argument about how and why the Cherokee should have won a "FOURWHEELER" competition I'm happy to hear it and jump on board.
I agree that it is surprising that that KL beat the TRD PRO 4Runner, and I don't think I would buy a KL because it seems to be over complicated and prone to software issues. However, if you read the Peterson's 4 Wheel Drive and Off Road magazine article, where the TRD Pro 4Runner beat the KL but the KL received a lot of praise, and just about every other KL Trailhawk review, it is clear that the KL trailhawk is much better off road than anyone expected it to be.
Comanche Scott
Expedition Leader
I find it hard to put any credibility to a 4WOTY test that includes two all wheel drive cars without a transfer case.
I really enjoy their writing. It is humorous and fun to read, but certainly nothing to take seriously... except to the marketing departments of the mfgs.
I do think the Renegade Trailhawk would be a fun little thrasher car though.
Great Jeep commercial on the Renegade during the Superbowl.
If you missed it, here is a link to the Jeep site with it.
http://www.jeep.com/en/renegade-world-commercial/?pid=hrown&adid=2015jeeprenegadesbedirect&sid=jeep&channel=e_direct&spid=sb2015
Scott
I really enjoy their writing. It is humorous and fun to read, but certainly nothing to take seriously... except to the marketing departments of the mfgs.
I do think the Renegade Trailhawk would be a fun little thrasher car though.
Great Jeep commercial on the Renegade during the Superbowl.
If you missed it, here is a link to the Jeep site with it.
http://www.jeep.com/en/renegade-world-commercial/?pid=hrown&adid=2015jeeprenegadesbedirect&sid=jeep&channel=e_direct&spid=sb2015
Scott
Welcome to the future of off roading. The KL can handle more than 99 percent of owners will ever toss at it. The only place where it falls short imo is the fact we cannot add a small lift to gain access to bigger tires. I am not a purist that needs a transfer case and solid axles to be considered an off roader. I had my patriot in crazy places it had no business going, and it did it without a whimper. I was ever impressed with it. In fact, I should have kept it, and traded our car on our JKU. We wanted the JKU for extra storage space, and the fun factor of the drop top.....
Box Rocket
Well-known member
There are tons of "soft-roaders" out there from other manufacturers. Jeep has had the reputation for decades of being more than that. A reputation of vehicles capable of tackling anything anywhere in the world. I just find it sad that with the exception of the Wrangler, they have almost entirely lost their identity and have become nothing more than what can be found from any manufacturer. And I hate to say it but the Wrangler is headed for the same demise. So I guess as long as you are content to stick to graded dirt roads and have to desire to modify your vehicle for improved performance then the new Cherokee and the Renegade will work, but don't feel bad when the Subaru and the Kia pass you on the trail and after you arrive at the "spectacular" location on your "adventure" you find the local bingo club there as well piling out of their minivan.
.
Back to the Cherokee and the FWOTY, take a look at this article from Car and Driver about the huge numbers of transmission failures that are happening. Every dealership is replacing multiple Cherokee transmissions every week. Please explain to me how anyone in their right mind can choose a vehicle with this kind of abysmal reliability as the FWOTY? The ONLY explanation is that the publishers of the magazine "sold out" and gave the award to the vehicle that paid the most advertising dollars.
http://blog.caranddriver.com/holy-s...ases-third-software-update-for-jeep-cherokee/
.
Again, I have absolutely no problem with a Jeep winning the award, IF IT LEGITIMATELY EARNED IT. Fortunately there are a few manufacturers that are still trying to deliver a truly capable vehicle for rough terrain, that can also be easily modified by enthusiasts to perform even better. While it's not my cup of tea, Ford is trying to deliver something with the Raptor. Dodge is trying to deliver with the Power Wagon. Toyota continues to deliver top notch reliability and offroad performance with the Land Cruiser, and the new TRD PRO model trucks/SUVs. Nissan is still trying to keep a toe in the game with the Frontier and Xterra. Chevy is making a half-hearted attempt with the new Colorado. But the sad reality is that the all of the vehicles are getting softer because of emission requirements and fuel economy regulations and the just the fact of less durability with weaker components just to cut production costs.
.
World wide if you were to point to the Car Manufacturers synonymous with rugged go-anywhere adventure it would be a pretty short list. Toyota, Land Rover, Nissan and Jeep. Now we find ourselves at a point where Land Rover and Jeep are quickly falling off that list as their vehicles become softer and more catered to highway road trips and luxury behind an empty facade of ruggedness and capability. The Wrangler is the ONLY thing keeping Jeep relevant in that group and it seems like even that will change in the next few years.
.
Back to the Cherokee and the FWOTY, take a look at this article from Car and Driver about the huge numbers of transmission failures that are happening. Every dealership is replacing multiple Cherokee transmissions every week. Please explain to me how anyone in their right mind can choose a vehicle with this kind of abysmal reliability as the FWOTY? The ONLY explanation is that the publishers of the magazine "sold out" and gave the award to the vehicle that paid the most advertising dollars.
http://blog.caranddriver.com/holy-s...ases-third-software-update-for-jeep-cherokee/
.
Again, I have absolutely no problem with a Jeep winning the award, IF IT LEGITIMATELY EARNED IT. Fortunately there are a few manufacturers that are still trying to deliver a truly capable vehicle for rough terrain, that can also be easily modified by enthusiasts to perform even better. While it's not my cup of tea, Ford is trying to deliver something with the Raptor. Dodge is trying to deliver with the Power Wagon. Toyota continues to deliver top notch reliability and offroad performance with the Land Cruiser, and the new TRD PRO model trucks/SUVs. Nissan is still trying to keep a toe in the game with the Frontier and Xterra. Chevy is making a half-hearted attempt with the new Colorado. But the sad reality is that the all of the vehicles are getting softer because of emission requirements and fuel economy regulations and the just the fact of less durability with weaker components just to cut production costs.
.
World wide if you were to point to the Car Manufacturers synonymous with rugged go-anywhere adventure it would be a pretty short list. Toyota, Land Rover, Nissan and Jeep. Now we find ourselves at a point where Land Rover and Jeep are quickly falling off that list as their vehicles become softer and more catered to highway road trips and luxury behind an empty facade of ruggedness and capability. The Wrangler is the ONLY thing keeping Jeep relevant in that group and it seems like even that will change in the next few years.
Finlay
Triarius
The Cherokee seems plagued by the transmission problems, but other cars (Evoque, for instance) don't seem to be, even as they have the same transmission.
That suggests a software issue, more than anything else. While I was looking into this, though, I found this explanation of the ZF-9HP and thought it was worth sharing.
My wife is semi-interested in replacing her 06 4runner maybe later this year. She likes the Renegade - small, sporty, capable enough to get her to the trailheads and semi-remote areas. We'll have to see how this issue develops.
That suggests a software issue, more than anything else. While I was looking into this, though, I found this explanation of the ZF-9HP and thought it was worth sharing.
My wife is semi-interested in replacing her 06 4runner maybe later this year. She likes the Renegade - small, sporty, capable enough to get her to the trailheads and semi-remote areas. We'll have to see how this issue develops.
Box Rocket, have you actually read any of the off road reviews of the Trailhawk these vehicles, including those on this website?
http://expeditionportal.com/first-drive-jeep-renegade/
They may not be your cup of tea, and clearly are not intended to be in the same class as Wranglers, but to say they are only suitable for graded dirt roads and are outclassed by Kia's and Subarus off road is simply not true.
I also share your concerns about the transmissions, especially the KL's built in early 2014 (there are no reported issues with Renegade transmissions) but to say every Jeep dealer is replacing multiple transmissions every week is probably a little bit of an exaggeration.
Let's face it. Jeep designed 2 vehicles that excel off road for what they are and they will sell literally millions of them and make tons of money.
http://expeditionportal.com/first-drive-jeep-renegade/
They may not be your cup of tea, and clearly are not intended to be in the same class as Wranglers, but to say they are only suitable for graded dirt roads and are outclassed by Kia's and Subarus off road is simply not true.
I also share your concerns about the transmissions, especially the KL's built in early 2014 (there are no reported issues with Renegade transmissions) but to say every Jeep dealer is replacing multiple transmissions every week is probably a little bit of an exaggeration.
Let's face it. Jeep designed 2 vehicles that excel off road for what they are and they will sell literally millions of them and make tons of money.
Box Rocket
Well-known member
Yes I have read the reviews and you're not understanding my point. I fully acknowledge the Renegade and the Cherokee for what they are, which is a passenger car based AWD crossover. I understand they are not meant to be compared to the Wrangler. And that is not what I am doing. For what the intended goal is of those vehicles, I think Jeep has accomplished what they set out to do. They have created a couple of decent "soft-roaders" that seem to surprise the people who drive them with their capabilities. But let's look at that for just a second. The other vehicles in that segment are things like the Mini Countryman, Subaru Outback, *gasp* the Kia Soul, the Honda CRV just to name a few. So yes I was being a bit fectitious about being passed on the gravel road by the Subaru and the Kia but the reality is not that far removed from the comment. Also, the public makes comparisions to other vehicles from the same segment so before anyone got their hands on these new Jeeps they were prepping themselves mentally for something akin in offroad performance to the vehicles listed. So it's not exactly a surprise that reviewers and the public are pleasantly surprised that these new Jeeps are in fact more capable that what they expected. The bar was not set very high.
.
So again, I am not criticizing either Jeep for what it is or saying I think it sucks. It's great for what it was designed for.
.
My entire reason for commenting here in the first place is in response to the FWOTY award. That award is historically given to a vehicle in the test group that performs the best in offroad situations. The more capable the vehicle is, the better chance it has of winning. If the award was designed to only award based on performance for vehicles within a particular segment then they should sell it as such. They do not. And I still have not found anyone who can provide ANY convincing argument as to why the Cherokee Trailhawk should have legitimately won that award, especially when it broke down and couldn't even finish the testing. the only explanation is the publishers of the article being corporate sell outs and pandering to the largest dollar provided by manufacturers.
Comanche Scott
Expedition Leader
Hi Adam,
I have to agree, and think we'd need to go back a decade or more to get a somewhat meaningful off road biased shootout.
Like you said, none of these shootouts are based on what "off roaders" consider reality.
All of us who are "off road centric" know better than to put any stock in these articles.
(imo) These shootouts do two things:
1). Sell magazines to people who aren't off road savvy
2). Provide manufacture's marketing groups with material (I think this is why the "love" gets spread around so much).
.
Besides, anybody who knows anything about off road, knows the Toyotas are totally inferior product compared to Jeep.
.
ROFLOL! Sorry man, saw you had a Tacoma and I just couldn't resist.
My last Tacoma 4x4 ('09) was amazing, and I'm a huge fan.
Scott
I have to agree, and think we'd need to go back a decade or more to get a somewhat meaningful off road biased shootout.
Like you said, none of these shootouts are based on what "off roaders" consider reality.
All of us who are "off road centric" know better than to put any stock in these articles.
(imo) These shootouts do two things:
1). Sell magazines to people who aren't off road savvy
2). Provide manufacture's marketing groups with material (I think this is why the "love" gets spread around so much).
.
Besides, anybody who knows anything about off road, knows the Toyotas are totally inferior product compared to Jeep.
.
ROFLOL! Sorry man, saw you had a Tacoma and I just couldn't resist.
My last Tacoma 4x4 ('09) was amazing, and I'm a huge fan.
Scott
Box Rocket
Well-known member
Touché. I'm used to the friendly jabs between Jeep and Toyota owners. Doesn't bother me because I know the truth. 
Comanche Scott
Expedition Leader
great reply!
Brother's in dirt. :friday:
Touché. I'm used to the friendly jabs between Jeep and Toyota owners. Doesn't bother me because I know the truth.
Brother's in dirt. :friday:
Box Rocket
Well-known member
Gaze your eyes upon the 2015 Four Wheeler of the Year!
http://blog.caranddriver.com/jeep-r...5-cherokees-for-unintended-airbag-deployment/
.
Time to wear that hockey mask for a couple weeks until you can get your recall taken care of.
http://blog.caranddriver.com/jeep-r...5-cherokees-for-unintended-airbag-deployment/
.
Time to wear that hockey mask for a couple weeks until you can get your recall taken care of.
Box Rocket
Well-known member
See I don't have that problem with my Toyotas. One of the nice things about living in the desert. Not all Toyotas are rust prone.
.
But I'll remind you, this has never been about Toyotas vs Jeeps. That's not why I'm posting anything about either of the new jeeps, so if you want to do the internet pissing match then that's fine but that's not why I came here.