Renegade concept at Detroit Auto Show
- Thread starter kayadog
- Start date
I like the 4Runner and Tacomas. They are just bigger than what I need. I really want to like the KL Trailhawk. It's the right size, capable enough, and I like the looks. However, the transmission and software issues have taken it off the list to replace my KK. I really hope they get it sorted out and I hope the Renegade avoids those teething pains. I think the KL might just be too complicated.
I like what Jeep is trying to do with both the Cherokee and the Renegade. They are aimed at the Outback buyer base and I think that Jeep can win market share in that segment. Of course the off road capabilities are exaggerated, and pointing that out is just sticking to the facts. No spit wad throwing is necessary. But marketing is not about facts alone, and for the vast majority of these car buyers, you really do "need 4x4" to drive through a 6" deep pool of standing water.
The Expo crowd is a tiny market and these vehicles are not aimed at us. In fact, their sales probably cross subsidize other more off road capable models.
IF Jeep can avoid choking on reliability, these models should be big volume sellers and that is good news.
R
The Expo crowd is a tiny market and these vehicles are not aimed at us. In fact, their sales probably cross subsidize other more off road capable models.
IF Jeep can avoid choking on reliability, these models should be big volume sellers and that is good news.
R
Box Rocket
Well-known member
Whatever. If you think my comments were merely petty Jeep bashing, you're sorely mistaken. That had nothing to do with it but maybe it was over your head. Enjoy yourselves.
I think this thread had run it's course. We'll have to disagree on the off road ability and usefulness of these vehicles for the expedition enthusiast and agree that reliability seems to be a big concern, particularly with the KL Cherokee.
I do think that if Subaru offered an Outback with a locking rear diiferential, skid plates, tow hooks, and the ability to run 30" all terrain tires people on this website would be all over it though.
I do think that if Subaru offered an Outback with a locking rear diiferential, skid plates, tow hooks, and the ability to run 30" all terrain tires people on this website would be all over it though.
Not over my head at all. The new jeeps are plenty capable off road. And as I said before, because it beat out the 4 runner, you think four wheeler has pissed in your cheerios. Well, guess what, the jeep can do off road without a real transfer case etc yada yada yada, what a Toyota 4runner trail edition can. I'm sorry you are to blind to see that. The issues are not with all Cherokees. The one I drove was spot on.
Box Rocket
Well-known member
Well you've proven my point. I couldn't care less about the 4Runner. You can go back and read through any of my comments and you'll see that I haven't mentioned it once. That has NOTHING to do with it. So yes it did go over your head. Once again, the point I was making *regardless of the manufacturer* was how the media is obviously giving the award to a vehicle that didn't earn it but won because of advertising dollars. I still haven't heard once single argument that can show me how or why a vehicle that couldn't even FINISH the testing should legitimately win. I don't care that it was a Jeep. If a Toyota had won but broken down and been unable to even finish the testing I'd be saying the same thing. Same with a Ford, same with a Land Rover. I don't care.
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Glad you like the Cherokee. I even said it before I think Jeep was successful in creating the type of vehicle they set out to create with the new Cherokee. If you're not concerned about the very real reliability issues that it has, or your wallet can keep up with the repairs that may arise, then cool. I'm not here trying to convince anyone to buy *this* vehicle or not to buy *that* vehicle. You're argument that the issues "are not with all Cherokees" makes me chuckle when you throw the jab of "ruststastic Toyotas that rot like tin cans" which is clearly also not an issue that affects all Toyotas. So keep looking at life through your rose colored glasses.
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Please all of you that think just because I happen to own a Toyota and that I'm saying something negative about a Jeep that it means I'm just here to bash the Jeeps. Not the point. It's not a pissing match or a this truck is better than that truck debate. It's about the reliability issues that are conveniently ignored by press media because they don't want to bite the hand that feeds them.
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I agree this has run its course and I think its dumb that brand loyalty has blinded some of you to the actual topic. I'll go back to my own backyard of rustbucket Toyotas and reality.
virginia_jeeper
Craft Beer Explorer
:lurk:
Scott Brady
Founder
We have tested both extensively. This must be a joke. . .
Scott Brady
Founder
The Cherokee is a great vehicle, and certainly capable, but to declare it a better 4WD performer than a vehicle with long travel (KDSS), solid rear axle (with locker and A-Trac), larger tires (significantly), low range and body on frame is shocking at best. We have months driving both platforms, and they are entirely different vehicles. Comparing a Wrangler vs. 4Runner is a much more worthwhile discussion.
BTW, the Renegade is kinda rad. I love that a little 4WD like that exists. It is as close to a Jimny that we will see
BTW, the Renegade is kinda rad. I love that a little 4WD like that exists. It is as close to a Jimny that we will see
The correct term would be I COULD CARE LESS. and no, the rot does not affect ALL Toyotas. the new ones in the showroom are nice and shiny. As soon as their air hits them, its crumbling to bits. As the official graveyard behind the local dealership states. Its where the 2 - 3 year old Toyotas go to die. And no, the programming issue is not with all Cherokees. I am damn well sure it will be sorted before anyones warranty will expire as well. Just as the Toyotas expire before their warranty too. Yep, hit the nail on the head by trying to take a shot at me with regards to reality. RUST AND TOYOTA is a very real reality. Here we go too about the "REALITY check". Toyotas are 100 percent reliable. Yep. another falsehood. Again, great marketing and BS ploy by Toyota and their owners. Toyotas are no more reliable than any other vehicle. watch out for the INSTANT ACCELERATION and then total loss of braking, veering off the road unexpectedly and other issues that are hell of a lot worse then a little transmission programming issue.
Please again, go back to your holy land on the Toyota forum. THANK YOU! I my have to visit there some time and do the same thing you are doing here. hmmmmmmmmm. Yeah, I think I will. Go over to the Toyota forum, start ****ting on all your supposedly awesome rigs, and say, Im not doing that, im just point out that the vehicle itself is crap not that its a jeep and I wear Toyota underwear. Man, I think most see through your bull****.
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Scott Brady
Founder
really... I hope you realize how rediculous that statement is, particularly to a guy that owns Land Rovers
Calm down the swearing and tantrums or find a new forum
Well scott, there is supposed to be no brand bashing in these forums. So please tell our friend to fly back where he belongs as well. thank you very much.
As for Toyotas being more reliable, they aren't. They have their major issues just like anything else. As mentions the rust graveyard here, there are literally at times 20 -40 tacomas and tundras in the one here at one time. Then there are the braking, acceleration and control issues they had a few years back. My friend has a TRD tundra, its been on the flatbed to the dealer at least 10 times because of non starting issues and had to spend days at a time at the local dealership for various issues. No better than anything else. Hell, I would say the newer land rovers have better reliability than Toyota as of late.
As for Toyotas being more reliable, they aren't. They have their major issues just like anything else. As mentions the rust graveyard here, there are literally at times 20 -40 tacomas and tundras in the one here at one time. Then there are the braking, acceleration and control issues they had a few years back. My friend has a TRD tundra, its been on the flatbed to the dealer at least 10 times because of non starting issues and had to spend days at a time at the local dealership for various issues. No better than anything else. Hell, I would say the newer land rovers have better reliability than Toyota as of late.
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