4Running Daily
Observer
I'm in. I'll make it work.
*Rickashay's 04' Tundra* - A build of Compromises
- Thread starter rickashay
- Start date
rickashay
Explorer
I'll admit it, I'm flip-flopping on the LT.
It's so ************ and the 13" of wheel travel would be unreal. The width would also ad a lot of stability and would make the logging and fire roads pretty fun while making it more capable on the technical trails as well. BUT I really really really am not a huge fan of fiberglass. I could try to keep the stock sheet metal, remove the flares, and trim the sheet metal accordingly but I'll have some serious poke if I do that. I could run the "mild" 3" Glassworks fiberglass front fenders but thats just another cost, and it sometimes looks funky with glass in the front and factory rear bedsides. I dunno maybe it's a sign to stay mid-travel and build the truck up properly and later retire the thing to crawler mode and a SAS when a family starts to come along and I need a bigger SUV. The +7" of track width won't help the tight technical trails either, but I guess those Jeep JK's on 40's and D60's get by, so I should be able to make it work too. haha Just spit balling here.
Let's hear some feedback from the fellow Expo TundraBirds and LT experienced.
It's so ************ and the 13" of wheel travel would be unreal. The width would also ad a lot of stability and would make the logging and fire roads pretty fun while making it more capable on the technical trails as well. BUT I really really really am not a huge fan of fiberglass. I could try to keep the stock sheet metal, remove the flares, and trim the sheet metal accordingly but I'll have some serious poke if I do that. I could run the "mild" 3" Glassworks fiberglass front fenders but thats just another cost, and it sometimes looks funky with glass in the front and factory rear bedsides. I dunno maybe it's a sign to stay mid-travel and build the truck up properly and later retire the thing to crawler mode and a SAS when a family starts to come along and I need a bigger SUV. The +7" of track width won't help the tight technical trails either, but I guess those Jeep JK's on 40's and D60's get by, so I should be able to make it work too. haha Just spit balling here.
Let's hear some feedback from the fellow Expo TundraBirds and LT experienced.
tyv12
Adventurer
Considered lt, then talked to some guys about the Maintenence upkeep and all the little things that add up one at a time and really $$ wise you're really not that far ahead of a sas and I doubt you're planning on hucking dunes anytime soon IMHO
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rickashay
Explorer
I agree. Hell, the guy who helped tub my firewall has a 1st Gen Tacoma on 35's with pretty much the same Bilstein kit currently in my truck. He's on stock gears and has on Aussie or Locright in the rear. He's bobbed the bed but thats about it.... and he has ran Moab, The Rubicon, and Dusy Ershim. Stock gears. Says a lot about the capability of decent driving skills, line selection, and the ability to be a "graceful" driver on the trail.
3 link pan hold sas then when you're done I'll have something. To go off of to do mine
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lol again... don't think I haven't thought about it.
Blender
Adventurer
Lurker with half a LT first gen Tundra here. I've been following your build. It's very clean and should be ultra-functional as-is.
I prefer to play on short rocky technical sections with some fast(er) linking trail in between. Never even been to the dunes. My truck is still a work in process it hasn't been on dirt in a year. Why did I do it? I wanted more wheel travel, a little higher ride height and shallower CV angles. Tundrasolutions user D67 built a truck I admire so I wanted to try my hand at it. A local guy had an FJC with a great performing +2" LT kit which made me hopeful. I put on Camburgs +3.5" kit. The uniball lower arm pivots are really trick.
Currently, it looks silly with stock fenders and a stock width rear. Sure the rear axle could be swapped out to match the new track width of the front but that's overkill. Maybe the 4" flared front fenders will pull it all together or maybe they'll make it look more like a bro-truck. I'll cross that bridge when it comes. Tentative plans for the back are to flip the shackle, bob/trim the bed and swap to a plate bumper. Some days I want to see it complete, other days I just want to wheel it as-is to have fun. http://imgur.com/a/enLc4
Will I be any more capable than before? Probably not. I had a ton of fun wheeling it with the mid travel setup. Jury is still out if the whole thing was a good idea.
rickashay
Explorer
Whoa! What? Someone who uses their Tundra not for baja'ing? haha
Really appreciate you dropping by and it looks like you see quite a bit of trail time. I really like your rig, looks great and I'm glad to see you use it.
Now, some questions for you....
- Is your Camburg LT functional with the stock fenders?! I actually like the look and think it would look great just with some spacers in the rear to even it out.
- Are you bumping travel at all to not hit your fenders on the lowest edge at full compression?
- Are you running 35's? Looks like it....
- Approximately how much lift have you netted up front?
I would really appreciate the info. Glad to have found someone who has gone down this road before. Cheers
Holy crap Addison! I didn't even realize you got rid of the cruiser until I saw this! I had to read through the thread and get caught up with everything. Your really making me jealous with all this LT talk, if/when I go LT I will be sticking with the factory fenders and a healthy amount of trimming. Yeah, the tires will stick out a bit, but the same thing happens if you go SAS, especially with one ton axles.
As to the comment above about where LT will take you that a regular suspension won't; it's not where it will take you, it's how fast and comfortable you will be running the same trail. I would love to be able to keep up a good pace running down longer, more remote trails. You can cover a lot more ground in a given time, and that gives you more time to explore or hangout at camp. I also feel it's easier on the rig, because the suspension is soaking up more of the terrain.
Anyways, I'm looking forward to where this goes (LT or not)!
As to the comment above about where LT will take you that a regular suspension won't; it's not where it will take you, it's how fast and comfortable you will be running the same trail. I would love to be able to keep up a good pace running down longer, more remote trails. You can cover a lot more ground in a given time, and that gives you more time to explore or hangout at camp. I also feel it's easier on the rig, because the suspension is soaking up more of the terrain.
Anyways, I'm looking forward to where this goes (LT or not)!
Blender
Adventurer
-I don't drive it much in its current state. I suppose the stock fenders could be cut back for extra clearance. Spacers in back back sound like a pretty good idea actually...
-Currently there are no functional bump stops on the truck. The stock ones are too short for the Camburg arms. Once the fiberglass is on I'll have Icon air bumps welded on. Current fenders allow for 6.0" up travel with my worn tires. Suspension is capable of 7.13" up travel (the uniball bolt just touches the fender liner). Total useable travel will be ~12.5" once the fiberglass is on.
-Tires are Toyo 285/75/17. They measure out to 34.1x11.25" Not quite a true 35, but close. Tires are pretty worn now.
-I'm not sure on the total lift. Current hub-center to fender measurements are ~23" front 22.75" rear. The photos where it's parallel parked are when it sat a bit higher.
Here's another shot of the width difference. The explosion of first gens around here has been awesome. I love seeing people buildup trucks.
rickashay
Explorer
Haha Hey Jeremiah, yah no more Cruiser. I'm not surprised, I seem to have an affinity for buying - building - then selling! Although that's out of the cards on this one... getting married this summer and also planning on buying a house to fix up once I sell my current one. Gunna be busy for the next couple of years and I doubt the lady will be too stoked if I build this one and sell it, only to build another! haha God, I'm already conforming... but it's probably a good thing.
I agree on the LT being just SO much nicer all around to drive and do those same trails. You do them in more style and comfort. Very good point regarding the SAS and tires and fenders though. I guess I just didnt consider it but yah 37+ on a D60 would definitely stick out at least as much as this LT setup. The good thing with keeping the stock fenders is that you only grow in width of your front track, not the body. Tire poke on the trail is a good thing, as long as you can place those tires you can usually get around a lot of things with some tricky driving. Place a tire on a tree and climb up it with the tire to get around it, for example. If you go with glass you get the wider body width, which is what will really hurt you on the tight trails.
I saw you started pulling the cladding on your 4R and doing some trimming, my guess was that you were going to do a 3-link.... but your going LT? Damn that would be sweet.
It's funny because I have literally been anticipating your reply. Your the only one out there with this kind of info and even some photos! So stoked to get the information and measurements above. Yah, throw some rear spacers on to try and match that poke up front. I think it would look excellent. Hell, just look at Blackdawg's newest pics of his 1st Gen Tacoma in the 4Runner/Tacoma/FJ picture thread.
You've already got some Glassworks? I see. Those are really nice and definitely what route I would go if I do glass. Excited to see more updates. Do you have a build thread anywhere?
Thinking out loud here:
- If I assume you have ~33.5" of tire left on your worn 34.1's, that means I have about 0.75" more height (my Toyo's measure pretty much a true 35" tire) on the top of the tire alone
((35"-33.5")/2)) = 0.75"
- The TC LT kit supposedly measures the same travel on paper as the Camburg kit (13" in a perfect world) but lets call them equal at a useable 12.5" of travel.
- If you have 6" of uptravel with your tires, I should have approx. 5.25" of available uptravel with my 35's (assuming lift height is set identical)
- If the TC kit is able to produce an equivalent 7.13" of uptravel, I only have to remove ~2" (7.13"-5.25" = 1.88") of radius from my factory fenders (bye bye fender flares!) to make it work.
I don't think thats even that bad.. and honestly I would even bump my uptravel .5" short if needed to have to trim that much less.... as long as I could cycle a full 12" I'd be down. haha Making this decision hard. I just got back to Canada, I'll be heading to The Gear Shop on Monday to talk with Nathan ("freeze" on here) and discuss.
City_Rider
Adventurer
Blackdawg's rig is pretty intense. Glad he's made it in to what it is after reading the first body met its end.
My $0.02 is to go LT and as you stated, bump the travel if you are worried about scrubbing tires - it's what I've done in the rear of my 4Runner. 3" Fox bump cans set up so I can play with their position and adjust them a bit. Basically how much of a money pit do you want this to be? LT will be a considerable investment over mid travel I thinks... have you done a cost comparison? Those funds could go a lot of other places on your rig, could they not? Bumpers? Sliders? Gears? Lockers? Maintenance? Custom rear cage? I can think of so many ways to spend your money!
My $0.02 is to go LT and as you stated, bump the travel if you are worried about scrubbing tires - it's what I've done in the rear of my 4Runner. 3" Fox bump cans set up so I can play with their position and adjust them a bit. Basically how much of a money pit do you want this to be? LT will be a considerable investment over mid travel I thinks... have you done a cost comparison? Those funds could go a lot of other places on your rig, could they not? Bumpers? Sliders? Gears? Lockers? Maintenance? Custom rear cage? I can think of so many ways to spend your money!
rickashay
Explorer
Yah the air bump cans would afford some excellent adjustability. How much of a money pit do I want this to be, you ask? Well I didn't know you could build a truck that isn't one, and I know that you know that only too well! Haha
All of the other items are incoming, it's just a matter of when. Already got the gears and lockers, just need to get them installed. My goal is to build the ultimate here for my needs. I want to be happy with it in the end so that I don't sell it and start over, as that is more expensive than doing it "right" the first time around. Just need to find out what "right" is....
We need reasoning man! Hahah I accept your prediction but want some merit behind it.
LT negatives:
- initial cost
- excessive width
- higher cost of maintenance
- substantially more time involved to get setup correctly
LT positives:
- mad travel
- strength of components
- stability due to track width increase
- comfort level over long distance travel offroad
- looks awesome
City_Rider
Adventurer
Indeed, finding the 'right' ride for YOU is always difficult - your demands will always be changing. It's good that you're acceptance of compromise hasn't swayed you away from modifying, I think you'd love the LT set up but your pocket book wouldn't. Also, less time on the road for the vehicle I predict. Maintenance and breakage will always be there and when removing stock components and getting a bit more confident may push a vehicle farther than it was ever intended and big things break catastrophically. Dirtco's latest shock experience provides some evidence. If you provide the means to go faster and go bigger then the tendency is to do so - but when things go bad, they go really bad.
Additional LT components 'required':
- Front Fenders (or some chopping as you're math indicates)
- Longer axles - not locally available when sourcing parts for rebuilds / purchasing replacements
- Front bump cans (cause hitting the shock inner limit isn't an option - is using hard mounted rubber bump stops an option?)
- Longer brake lines (front and rear - probably sourced locally as you'll need custom length)
You've had basically every configuration of vehicle (small truck, suv, V8 truck) and obviously talk to people who have every sort of vehicle out there. Hopefully this set up will keep you satisfied for years to come, whichever way you decide to proceed.