goodtimes
Expedition Poseur
No argueing here Scott...I just honestly feel that an experienced driver has more control and finesse with a manual transmission and appropriate gearing than with an automatic. I also feel that rock buggies are generally not a prime example of control or finesse. Maybe the drivers are getting better with the un-needed use of power than they used to....I have not paid much attention to the competitions lately. On the trail, the guys running the manuals and deep gears make it look much easier than the automatics.
From personal experience with both automatics and manuals, I feel much more "connected" to a vehicle with a manual transmission. I [usually] know how to manipulate the transmission to get what I want...this is not really an option with a automatic. You get the gear that the PCM decides you need (yes, you can force it into a lower gear, but not a higher gear--unless you run a manual valve body, which is no fun on the street)
For example, last years ExTrophy event. When I was sitting at the bottom of the hill (start line) when I pre-ran the rally course. I was in 4-lo. If I was in an automatic, I would have stood on the gas, the jeep would have made it 1/2 way up the hill before it stopped accelerating, hesitating for a second as it grabbed 2nd gear. It would have carried 2nd gear through the immediate left (top of the hill) and probably tried to grab 3rd as I eased off the gas and made the right to head between the trees. Then when I got after it again, it would have downshifted, quite possibly back to 1st gear due to the low speed at which I made that off camber right hand turn, but it would have gone to second as soon as it found first due to the engine speed....
But, with the manual, I pushed it into 3rd gear, let loose of the clutch as I stood on the gas....and kept it in 3rd gear all the way until I made the right turn back into the wash (after turn 4). I was able to keep the engine RPM where I wanted, with a direct connection between the engine and transmission...no hunting for gears, no wondering what the heck the PCM was going to decide to do....it was where I wanted it and I knew what it was going to do.
Another example....front tires are on top of a large verticle step, rear tires are at the bottom. You don't have enough traction to crawl the ledge, so you need to bump it. With deep gears and an automatic, you start off in first gear, and may or may not build enough speed to give yourself the traction you need...you might very well need 2nd gear to give yourself the wheel speed in such a short distance. Going through 1st gear, waiting for the 1-2 upshift and then building wheel speed probably isn't an option....with a manual, pick the gear you need, put it there and go.
Then of course is the textbook Pyeatte move...come into a corner to hot in way to high of a gear (5th), downshift (to 3rd) with the expectation of accelerating out of the corner, but waiting to long to get back after the gas and end up sliding sideways down the road, hoping you don't hit the ditch or go wheels up....and hoping that guy that is right on your heels sees you and stops before his ARB bumper gets up close and personal with your door....OK, so maybe that isn't such a good example :hehe:
Now don't get me wrong...automatics are much easier to drive, they are more forgiving with the shock loads, they do offer a notable effective gear reduction, they are easier to feather the brakes with (control front wheel hop), and if you don't have deep enough gearing, they are much better....but, like I said, with the proper gearing, I think the manual is better on techincal terrain.
Oh, there is one more very good example of manuals being just too cool....The first time I got high centered in my jeep, 2 guys driving some big stupid ford super dutys told me I couldn't make it through the rock garden where they had stopped (FWIW, this was on Dishpan Springs, before they built the bridge). I got almost all the way through, literally getting stuck on the last damn rock. With the jeep idling in 4-lo/1st gear with both lockers on...I got out of the jeep, lifted up on the rear bumper and pushed forward, the jeep pulled itself off the rock, I looked back at the nay-sayers, walked back to the jeep (now idling down the trail), got back in and went on my way. You will simply never see the look on those guys faces when trying to get an automatic off that rock.
From personal experience with both automatics and manuals, I feel much more "connected" to a vehicle with a manual transmission. I [usually] know how to manipulate the transmission to get what I want...this is not really an option with a automatic. You get the gear that the PCM decides you need (yes, you can force it into a lower gear, but not a higher gear--unless you run a manual valve body, which is no fun on the street)
For example, last years ExTrophy event. When I was sitting at the bottom of the hill (start line) when I pre-ran the rally course. I was in 4-lo. If I was in an automatic, I would have stood on the gas, the jeep would have made it 1/2 way up the hill before it stopped accelerating, hesitating for a second as it grabbed 2nd gear. It would have carried 2nd gear through the immediate left (top of the hill) and probably tried to grab 3rd as I eased off the gas and made the right to head between the trees. Then when I got after it again, it would have downshifted, quite possibly back to 1st gear due to the low speed at which I made that off camber right hand turn, but it would have gone to second as soon as it found first due to the engine speed....
But, with the manual, I pushed it into 3rd gear, let loose of the clutch as I stood on the gas....and kept it in 3rd gear all the way until I made the right turn back into the wash (after turn 4). I was able to keep the engine RPM where I wanted, with a direct connection between the engine and transmission...no hunting for gears, no wondering what the heck the PCM was going to decide to do....it was where I wanted it and I knew what it was going to do.
Another example....front tires are on top of a large verticle step, rear tires are at the bottom. You don't have enough traction to crawl the ledge, so you need to bump it. With deep gears and an automatic, you start off in first gear, and may or may not build enough speed to give yourself the traction you need...you might very well need 2nd gear to give yourself the wheel speed in such a short distance. Going through 1st gear, waiting for the 1-2 upshift and then building wheel speed probably isn't an option....with a manual, pick the gear you need, put it there and go.
Then of course is the textbook Pyeatte move...come into a corner to hot in way to high of a gear (5th), downshift (to 3rd) with the expectation of accelerating out of the corner, but waiting to long to get back after the gas and end up sliding sideways down the road, hoping you don't hit the ditch or go wheels up....and hoping that guy that is right on your heels sees you and stops before his ARB bumper gets up close and personal with your door....OK, so maybe that isn't such a good example :hehe:
Now don't get me wrong...automatics are much easier to drive, they are more forgiving with the shock loads, they do offer a notable effective gear reduction, they are easier to feather the brakes with (control front wheel hop), and if you don't have deep enough gearing, they are much better....but, like I said, with the proper gearing, I think the manual is better on techincal terrain.
Oh, there is one more very good example of manuals being just too cool....The first time I got high centered in my jeep, 2 guys driving some big stupid ford super dutys told me I couldn't make it through the rock garden where they had stopped (FWIW, this was on Dishpan Springs, before they built the bridge). I got almost all the way through, literally getting stuck on the last damn rock. With the jeep idling in 4-lo/1st gear with both lockers on...I got out of the jeep, lifted up on the rear bumper and pushed forward, the jeep pulled itself off the rock, I looked back at the nay-sayers, walked back to the jeep (now idling down the trail), got back in and went on my way. You will simply never see the look on those guys faces when trying to get an automatic off that rock.
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