SAS for expedition tacoma?

Winky

Adventurer
I was just curious to know if any of you tacoma guys have considered this. I have a jeep rubi tj right now but it isn't the best long hauler and with a work injury isn't the most practical vehicle anymore. I have been considering trading to a DC tacoma for the comfort and space. I just can't stand IFS. It's because I don't know squat when it comes to repairing them. I was thinking just a simple swap no d60s or anything and staying low with 255/85s. What do you guys and girls think? BTW expedition is my main focus.

Josh
 

Brian894x4

Explorer
I used to travel with an SAS 1989 Toyota. Still have it actually, but it's been retired and will eventually be sold off. Replaced it with a Land Cruiser FZJ80.

The reasons are many. I too, can't really stand IFS, although I reconize that there aren't that many places a well designed IFS truck can't go that a solid axle rig, set up for expeditions (as opposed to all out buggy dedicated 4 wheeler) could go. Just look at Scott's Tacoma for example.

But solid axles do bring things to the table like beefier and more reliable axles, steering, and at least an easier time tackling obsticals.

The biggest problem with SASing either the older Toyota trucks or the Tacoma is that it's very difficult to build them using stock or even moderate lift hieghts, which it sounds like what you're interested in doing judging by your tire size. The reason for this is that the IFS frames of the older and Tacoma trucks are not arched properly for a solid axle up front and therefor, extra lift is normally used to compensate for this. Most SAS lifts are at least 5" with many being 6" or taller. That's a lot of lift for a Toyota truck. I was able to get mine down to 4" and that was the absolutely lowest I think one can go without cutting into the frame, which not easy or cost effective. I think the Tacoma's front frame arch is even worse than my truck, not to mention other issues with SASing a Tacoma that make it less cost effective or easy compared to the older trucks.

The other issue with SAS trucks is that it's almost impossible to add sway bars...at least to the front...and combined with high lifts, this leads to somewhat unstable platform for carrying heavy gear and especially roof top gear off road.

Now, this doesn't mean an SAS Toyota can't be used an expedition truck. I certainly drove my truck all over the place, at least around the Pacific Northwest and it worked, but it was a serious compromise. For us, we rarely tackled the extreme trails that it was more suited for, and so the compromise in highway handling wasn't really worth it.

I ended up going with Toyota Land Cruiser FZJ80, which allowed me to upgrade to a larger vehicle, with more power, larger and better sealed cargo space, but most importantly, most the off road advantages of my truck with its front and rear solid axles, but the comfort and handling of a modern SUV. Other than horrible gas mileage, I absolutely love it and I'm never looking back.

But if I were to built a Tacoma (which I almost did) I would do something like Scott's build and that means keeping the IFS, but giving it a minor lift and beefing it up as much as possible.

That set up will still go pretty much anywhere that anyone who isn't driving a dedicated trail rig would want to go. But most importantly, it drives and handles decently on the highway and dirt roads. Because let's face it. Most of us, spend the vast majority of our time on the highway and dirt roads, rather than extreme trails. So it only make sense that our "expedition" vehicles should be a reasonable compromise between good highway handling and off roadability.

Now, if you insist on solid axles and a Tacoma or like style truck as an expedition rig, I would recommend finding a rare '80-'85 factory solid axle truck or 4runner and putting a Tacoma motor in it. Not cheap, but you'd get the best of all worlds. Of course, you could also consider a Land Cruiser FZJ80 as they are coming down in price and would really give you the best of all worlds. So long as you don't mind worse gas mileage than a Hummer.

Good luck.
 
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Grim Reaper

Expedition Leader
You going to rock crawl or trail ride? I was going to SAS my 4 Runner..even have an axle to do it. After I figured out I could fit 33x12.5s with no lift I am less inclined to do so.

Once I put the e-locker in it I can keep up pretty good with my buddy that runs a stock rubie unlimited 2 door. I actually have better ground clearence.

Now if I was wanting to do hard core rock crawling then yes I would be all over the SAS.

Run it for a while and see if you really feel you need a solid front axle.

As far as maintance....doesn't require anything special....fact is it is probably eaiser to work on the a toyota solid axle when you break something. If I blow a CV I can change it out in about 30 minutes.

Wash board roads are fun! Toy IFS soaks up most wash board great.
 

DaveInDenver

Middle Income Semi-Redneck
What's so bad about IFS? Of the Toyotas I've owned ('84 pickup, '78 FJ40 and this one) I think my '91 is the best so far. Admittedly the pickup was regular cab, no P/S. But it did have a 'Nest. The FJ40 was a constant battle to keep on the road (it needed a restoration). So my sample is really not fair. But my point is this, my truck is double locked and I've yet to go to a place that it won't take me there and I've been way over my head enough that I no longer push it. I don't have a winch and it's far too easy to get really, really stuck with lockers. My thought is (at least with the torsion bar IFS) that it's not rocket science and changing the truck from the stock configuration means you are opening it up to odd-ball steering issues or frame reliability. The All Pro style SAS looks to me like it will eventually break your frame, I dunno. But why do guy 'hate' IFS? I personally think IFS on a truck designed to go places makes sense, the long distance pavement and dirt roads scream IFS and a well designed one can flex well enough to hold it's own in more technical sections. We are not building rock crawlers anyway. I've broken a Birfield on the FJ40 and a CV axle on the truck and it's a whole lot less painful to switch the CV axles on my truck out. I've pressed the studs out of the drive flanges on the diff, replaced them with bolts. With the wheel of the broken CV turned all the way to the front steering stop, I can get the axle in and out in a few minutes, don't even have to take the wheel off. Do have to pop the hub cap off to pull the C-clip, but it's really a painless operation. In that sense IFS has an advantage in my mind over the solid axle.
 
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Scott Brady

Founder
I think the important combination is IFS+Toyota (or Nissan). These trucks are built for sevier service.

I was a Jeep and Land Rover guy too, having owned ten solid axle trucks before buying my Tacoma (I did own a few IFS vehicles in there along the way, but for mild/wife duty) so I was pretty set on solid axle.

For overlanding, IFS has few compromises and more advantages, principally in handling and comfort over long distances. My truck can move across the desert almost effortlessly with the racing suspension I have installed compared to the solid axle vehicles.

So, I like my IFS Toyota, but would still prefer a TLC 78 Series if I could buy one ;)
 

crawler#976

Expedition Leader
Steve Scheafer has SAS'd a '99 Forerunner and kept the ride hieght reasonable by going spring under vs. spring over. He still clears 35's fine. If I was going to consider SAS'n my Taco, I'd go that route.

http://sonoransteel.com/

I have a SAS'd '87 P/U, and find that my '98 Taco will go 90% of the places I want to with much more comfort. Other than the extreme rock trails, the Taco does very, very well off highway - and that's on 31's.
 

DaveInDenver

Middle Income Semi-Redneck
crawler#976 said:
Steve Scheafer has SAS'd a '99 Forerunner and kept the ride hieght reasonable by going spring under vs. spring over. He still clears 35's fine. If I was going to consider SAS'n my Taco, I'd go that route.
I've seen his 4Runner and I think he's done a fantastic job. Like you say, very well thought out.
 

kcowyo

ExPo Original
I'd rather endure the "limitations" of IFS on a technical trail, than the harsh ride with a solid axle and leaf springs on the highway to that trail. Everything is a compromise.

Now if you could swap in an LC80 axle with coils, that would be a whole different animal. :chowtime:
 

Dirty Harry

Adventurer
crawler#976 said:
I have a SAS'd '87 P/U, and find that my '98 Taco will go 90% of the places I want to with much more comfort. Other than the extreme rock trails, the Taco does very, very well off highway - and that's on 31's.

Similarly, I have a SAS'ed 86 pickup and a '98 4Runner, and the crawl ratio and fear of dented sheetmetal are the only things that cause me to chose the pickup over the 4Runner. Yes, I have broken CVs, but I have also broken parts in the solid front axle of the pickup.

For expedition use I much prefer the coilover IFS of the 4Runner, and as Brian mentioned it allows you to keep the overall height lower and handles better. If I had my mind set on a solid front axle I would just get an FZJ80 instead of trying to reinvent the wheel. I owned one of those too, and the 4Runner gives up nothing in terms of capability, however I will admit that the 4Runner does not have the same "bank vault" feel as the Land Cruiser.
 
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BajaTaco

Swashbuckler
My thoughts are towards the last half of this article. I pretty much echo the sentiments already conveyed here. The Tacoma IFS is designed really well and unless you are rock crawling on a regular basis, there isn't much good reason to get rid of it in favor of a solid axle.
 

ntsqd

Heretic Car Camper
I've owned an '84 x-cab yota (known as "Patch" b/c he is comprised of several vehicles) since '98. There have been times when I wished he was an IFS truck, but that being said I like the robustness of the LA and I don't give up much to the IFS race chasers I've worked with. That latter is likely due to the unkwn front lift springs (~3-4"), GM 65's on the rear, and the Bilsteins.
You can make a LA ride nice (Patch is a hint though not proof), but it takes development money and time. And at the end had you put that same effort into an IFS who knows what you'd have.

My advice would be to buy a truck that has the basic arrangement that you want, don't start such major mods. Working out the bugs of such things always takes longer than you planned and considerably more money as well.
 
x2 what BT said.

If you go crawling around on difficult trails (7+ on a 10 scale), you will find yourself constantly in the alignment shop, there will be massive dents in the engine skid plate, you'll spin the wheels more, the tie rods are at more risk of breaking (usually you cannot upgrade the rack or rods), and with a front locker you're more likely to break front end parts because you can run Unobtanium axles if you want, but the CV joints will still be weak...particularly when one axle is trying to haul the front end up a ledge at maximum flex.

...That's all I can tell ya, I haven't swapped to a solid front axle yet, but I will since I like to tackle harder trails and I'm willing to sacrifice the ride quality of the IFS for the durability of a solid axle setup. It's just what I do, not necessarily what anyone else does.

Since you're looking at a Tacoma, you could get a long travel kit for the front and have a good compromise. It'll hold up much better on your Tacoma than it will on my Tundra, since Tundras use Tacoma running gear.

-Sean
 

Winky

Adventurer
Wow a big response and fast! I can't shake the idea that you can make a SA taco ride like 80 series or other newer model SA vehicle like a HD Ram. I may be way off base. I'm not thinking of reinventing the wheel just makeing something unique, not everythings has to be the same. I suppose I may be ignorant to the capabilities of an IFS taco.. anyone care to take me out and show me what they can do:) ?
Like I said expedition travel is my main focus but sometimes I do like to do technical trails. That sonoran steel link is a great find, I am going to get in touch with him and discuss some ideas.
Thanks for all the replies.. I still have a lot of planning to do to see if I am going to go through with this or just scrap it.

Josh
 

Dirty Harry

Adventurer
jjwinky said:
I suppose I may be ignorant to the capabilities of an IFS taco.. anyone care to take me out and show me what they can do:) ?

Where are you located? I'll take you out in my 4Runner and jump it and crawl it and everything in between if you are interested. I drove it from South Dakota to Moab last month, ran Hell's Revenge, jumped it in the dunes, then drove it another 800 miles to Reno.

If you have your heart set on the SAS, consider Off Road Solutions coilover solid axle swap . They are finishing up a Tacoma right now. If you are in Denver it is worth going for a test drive. With the leaf springs in the rear the vehicle is very well balanced and stable, plus ORS can assist you with spring rates and shock valving that will best suit your expedition travels.
 

DaveInDenver

Middle Income Semi-Redneck
jjwinky said:
Wow a big response and fast! I can't shake the idea that you can make a SA taco ride like 80 series or other newer model SA vehicle like a HD Ram. I may be way off base. I'm not thinking of reinventing the wheel just makeing something unique, not everythings has to be the same.
The differences between an 80 series and Taco are more than just having a live axle. The weight of a Cruiser goes a really long way towards making it ride the way it does. Solid axle mini trucks still ride like mini trucks, just that they can crawl better. As far as unique, sticking with a built IFS is the unique thing right now! Lots of places outside ExPo (i.e. YotaTech, Pirate, IH8MUD, etc.) the harder core IFS trucks are the oddballs.
 

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