Sawtooth Unlimited - Off Road Pop Top Camper Trailer
- Thread starter stomperxj
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high-and-dry
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way to heavy
high-and-dry
Active member
Okay Jess I just got done binge watching all of your videos. I got all the way to 24 last night, well at 345 Am.
Couple of things, on my old tnttt posts I talked about gluing and riveting my SIPs to a frame. I like your method a lot, it is just a more of a complete "system" than what I had in my mind 8 years ago. So great job on that, much better than what I would have done.
I was thinking about giving you an idea for when you had to bolt thru a panel and needed compressive strength. You came up with something, but there is a better and easy way. Say you need to run a 1/4 bolt thru the panel. Drill a 1/2 inch hole in the top layer, then take a stiff wire with a 90 degree bend on it that is about 3/8s long. Chuck the wire in your drill and use it to ream out the foam a 3/8s larger than the 1/2 hole. Then fill the hole with epoxy, this will give you a large solid surface to bolt to, including a washer if you want it. Just drill thru the epoxy where you want you final hole to be. That is how it done on foam core boat panels, as it give the compressive strength as well as guarantees water tightness when sealed. It is kind of a hold over from balsa core days, where water in the core is very very bad. In your situation you could also drill the hole 3/8 for a 1/4 bolt and have some wiggle room for adjustment or to give a panel the ability to shift and slide little for thermal expansion or torquing on the frame.
As for the epoxy no gripping to the pvc, yup you learned that one. What you could have done pretty cheaply these days if epoxy reinforced paper tubes, or carbon fiber tubes ( thin wall ). This would have no taken away the strength from the panel as the round shape would actually probably be stronger than the foam. For bends just a miter cut for every 10 or 15 degrees and super glue to hold it together. It would have been very easy to cut the foam with a round router bit to have a nice tight glue up.
carbon fiber tube amazon link, but I would find a thinner wall for cost reasons. Imagine carbon fiber arrows but a larger diameter.
Couple of things, on my old tnttt posts I talked about gluing and riveting my SIPs to a frame. I like your method a lot, it is just a more of a complete "system" than what I had in my mind 8 years ago. So great job on that, much better than what I would have done.
I was thinking about giving you an idea for when you had to bolt thru a panel and needed compressive strength. You came up with something, but there is a better and easy way. Say you need to run a 1/4 bolt thru the panel. Drill a 1/2 inch hole in the top layer, then take a stiff wire with a 90 degree bend on it that is about 3/8s long. Chuck the wire in your drill and use it to ream out the foam a 3/8s larger than the 1/2 hole. Then fill the hole with epoxy, this will give you a large solid surface to bolt to, including a washer if you want it. Just drill thru the epoxy where you want you final hole to be. That is how it done on foam core boat panels, as it give the compressive strength as well as guarantees water tightness when sealed. It is kind of a hold over from balsa core days, where water in the core is very very bad. In your situation you could also drill the hole 3/8 for a 1/4 bolt and have some wiggle room for adjustment or to give a panel the ability to shift and slide little for thermal expansion or torquing on the frame.
As for the epoxy no gripping to the pvc, yup you learned that one. What you could have done pretty cheaply these days if epoxy reinforced paper tubes, or carbon fiber tubes ( thin wall ). This would have no taken away the strength from the panel as the round shape would actually probably be stronger than the foam. For bends just a miter cut for every 10 or 15 degrees and super glue to hold it together. It would have been very easy to cut the foam with a round router bit to have a nice tight glue up.
carbon fiber tube amazon link, but I would find a thinner wall for cost reasons. Imagine carbon fiber arrows but a larger diameter.
Amazon.com: ARRIS 16mm x 18mm x 500mm 3K Roll Wrapped 100% Pure Carbon Fiber Tube (2PCS) Glossy Surface … : Industrial & Scientific
Amazon.com: ARRIS 16mm x 18mm x 500mm 3K Roll Wrapped 100% Pure Carbon Fiber Tube (2PCS) Glossy Surface … : Industrial & Scientific
www.amazon.com
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stomperxj
Explorer
Yeah I didn't want to just rely on the Teroson only at the panel joints so the angle pieces and rivets really put a lot of strength into the joints. I'll keep your epoxy anchor hole in mind if I need to do any bolt thru stuff. Trying to keep that to a minimum. I learned my lesson on the pvc. The aluminum seems to have worked fine and ads some strength too I think. The only problem with round conduit is the gaps it would leave. That is why I chose to go with square tube.
Thanks opp. I think the rivets and angle are the way to go on this construction style.
high-and-dry
Active member
Have you done a pull test to see how strong the fiberglass skin is with the rivets. Might be interesting to take a scrap of panel and rivet a bracket to and see who much weight it takes to pull out.
I recently found out about alupoly, its a aluminum skinned panel with a polyethylene core 2mm or 3mm and 6mm thick with thicker skin options. It is stock in 16 foot long sheets and comes painted in many color from the factory. I got a price for a 4x8 sheet its 78 bucks. Might use it as an out skin on my sips, as it is structural by itself if I dont get perfect adhesion from air bubbles it should not oil can. It could probably be laminated with just a shop vac very successfully. It can also do curves, and if you cut the rear skin can be bent 90 degrees.
I recently found out about alupoly, its a aluminum skinned panel with a polyethylene core 2mm or 3mm and 6mm thick with thicker skin options. It is stock in 16 foot long sheets and comes painted in many color from the factory. I got a price for a 4x8 sheet its 78 bucks. Might use it as an out skin on my sips, as it is structural by itself if I dont get perfect adhesion from air bubbles it should not oil can. It could probably be laminated with just a shop vac very successfully. It can also do curves, and if you cut the rear skin can be bent 90 degrees.
stomperxj
Explorer
I did but it was quite a while ago. I'll have to rig one up and do a test. Good idea
ITTOG
Well-known member
It is also as ACM, aluminum composite material. I can get a 3 mm sheet of 4x8 for $49 at a sign shop so you should get another quote if you haven't already. I know prices change by area but the price you listed seemed high.
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high-and-dry
Active member
Yeah I saw some other prices listed in other places, before I would buy I would price shop.
stomperxj
Explorer
stomperxj
Explorer
I made up some protection angles for the bottom edge of the walls. I didn't like the exposed skin even though it would be somewhat protected by the raptor liner. Got the rear shelf installed too. That stiffened up the walls more than I thought it would. New vid below. There's another episode before this one too. 30 and 31 are new.
high-and-dry
Active member
Looking good Jess. I was wondering what you where going to with the bottom edge of the walls, thats why I am doing mine with the angle iron that is big enough for the whole panel to sit on.
I really appreciate you and your build, it is giving me things to do and things not to do. And I dont mean that in a bad way, I mean it as in "this is how I was going to do it, but not now"
As for the bubbles under the glass, I was reading here about SIPs and one of the manufactures was talking about water getting in the panel. He show a pic of the edge of a panel and it had a saw kerf down the foam to let the air out during vaccing. I plan on buying the cheapest circular saw blade I can and rounding the teeth of it so I can put a kerf on the foam panels. I want the kerf to be 1/16 deep with a rounded bottom, to avoid a stress point in the foam. It will probably just fill up with epoxy anyway but it might help get the air out.
Edit, a way for you to do the wheel wells is just like you did the foot well. Just a 1 inch piece of metal welded to a strip cut out in the right shape. It would take a while to make thou.
I really appreciate you and your build, it is giving me things to do and things not to do. And I dont mean that in a bad way, I mean it as in "this is how I was going to do it, but not now"
As for the bubbles under the glass, I was reading here about SIPs and one of the manufactures was talking about water getting in the panel. He show a pic of the edge of a panel and it had a saw kerf down the foam to let the air out during vaccing. I plan on buying the cheapest circular saw blade I can and rounding the teeth of it so I can put a kerf on the foam panels. I want the kerf to be 1/16 deep with a rounded bottom, to avoid a stress point in the foam. It will probably just fill up with epoxy anyway but it might help get the air out.
Edit, a way for you to do the wheel wells is just like you did the foot well. Just a 1 inch piece of metal welded to a strip cut out in the right shape. It would take a while to make thou.
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