Sell my 80? I need a voice(s) of reason.

[ChuckB]

From what I understand they are legal. Since both of these engines are available in the states and are considered viable candidates for transplant. The reason the Toyota motor is not is because Toyota never brought in a Diesel variant of the 80 Land Cruiser.
Blair

I actually called CARB on the phone about this. The fact that Toyota never imported the diesel into the US is a separate yet slightly related issue.

The issue with the American diesels is that they are produced for vehicles in a heavier weight class than Land Cruiser ie Medium vs. Light duty. According to CA law, you can't put an engine that was orginally medium/heavy duty into a light duty vehicle.

 

[calamaridog]

Pepto Bismol 4 oz $3.85 .. $123.20 per gallon

What are they feeding you over there? If you are buying that stuff by the gallon, you have big problems.

Or is that the expedition size?

 

[grahamfitter]

I can't claim to be a voice of reason being a Jeep owner on the Toyota forum but...

If you already only use the vehicle for trips and pay $3 a gallon for gas...

At 11 mpg you'd pay $272 for 1000 miles
At 20 mpg you'd pay $150

So over 5000 miles you'd pay $613 more in gas in the 80.

Over 50000 miles you'd pay $6130 more. Sounds a lot but its got to be less than the depreciation on the 80 and its mods plus whatever needs doing to the 60.

Reasonable?

Cheers,
Graham

 

[locrwln]

The issue with the American diesels is that they are produced for vehicles in a heavier weight class than Land Cruiser ie Medium vs. Light duty. According to CA law, you can't put an engine that was orginally medium/heavy duty into a light duty vehicle.

Actually the GM 6.2/6.5 were both offered in the 1/2 ton truck and blazers, so not sure why it wouldn't be legal in that respect. Still guessing with CARB, you just never know.

Jack

 

[Sleeping Dog]

80 for 60

The only reason to change is building a new rig is more fun than driving the completed one. Kinda sick. Keep the 80 but if you don't, sell it to me.

Jim

 

[blupaddler]

I can't claim to be a voice of reason being a Jeep owner on the Toyota forum but...

If you already only use the vehicle for trips and pay $3 a gallon for gas...

At 11 mpg you'd pay $272 for 1000 miles
At 20 mpg you'd pay $150

So over 5000 miles you'd pay $613 more in gas in the 80.

Over 50000 miles you'd pay $6130 more. Sounds a lot but its got to be less than the depreciation on the 80 and its mods plus whatever needs doing to the 60.

Reasonable?

Cheers,
Graham

Jeep, Toyota, Land Rover, Yugo...I am not biased. Great thinking. I really like the math on the 1000 miles.







Thanks everyone for the help.




And yes the 80 is for sale.

One million dollars... buuwhaaa, buuuuuwhaaaaa, haaaaa, haaaa



:shakin:

 

[ChuckB]

Actually the GM 6.2/6.5 were both offered in the 1/2 ton truck and blazers, so not sure why it wouldn't be legal in that respect. Still guessing with CARB, you just never know.

Jack

You're probably right, there is some grey area with GM diesels, but the Cummings is definitely in a different class...

 

[Blair G]

You're probably right, there is some grey area with GM diesels, but the Cummings is definitely in a different class...

Funny how it varies talking to CARB. The guy I talked to said the 4bt engine was a legit engine because it was 50 State approved and was used during the years of the Land Cruisers production. He was the one who brought it up also.

Blair

 

[dieselcruiserhead]

I wouldn't rag on it too hard. The HJ60 will always hold its value as long as the body is good and it runs. The 5 speed in them is very nice. I loved my HJ60 and I am probably in the minority but I would take a HJ60 any day of the week over 80. But I have the ability to turbocharge fairly cheaply which is a bonus. There is a writeup of it here: http://cruisers.shoumatoffmedia.com/hj60turbosetup.html It if is an auto then no questions that I would take the 80 as the autos suck unusually high amounts of power out of the already doggish drivetrain. If its a stick it is the awesome H55F transmission that shifts smoothly and normally yet still has good lows and an overdrive (4.9 first gear). What is nice about the 60 is its simplicity. The roll up windows are great. My HJ60 was one of my favorite vehicles of all time. My only real complaint about them is the leaf springs which are bouncy but this can be overcome with decent suspension. Belton is actually a very good suspension company, comparable with old man emu and also Australian I believe.

The big thing is rust. Mine was starting to have some come through (common in Canada) so I sold it while it still have value. I think I got $11,500 for it and it had 175K miles and it still lives but I wanted a pristine cruiser and I wanted to try to build one myself. It was actually the new owner who had me turbo charge it for him and as soon as I did I kicked myself ever since. I did have a good couple months before he came and got it so it was sad to see it go... It also had a nice small spring over that was about perfect. The HJ60s have some nice little features only found on FJ62s, the push button 4WD High, which is actually nice if you use it a lot. I actually prefer it over the manual shift FJ60s as it goes in and out smoothly, when I normally prefer manual shift 4WD. The front axle is trussed and is stronger. And it is really not hard to get parts for at all and any mechanical diesel seldom needs 'parts' other than common wear items. You replace the brushes (about a 10 minute job usually) in the alternator and that's it. My HJ60 was not AC'd so I had to add that (took a day with a setup out of a FJ60. Was not too hard either). And other than that it was great. I regretted selling it almost immediately. With a turbo they are more than tolerable. Even with 33's I almost always got at least 22 mpg. Mileage actually went down when I started loading it and it actually got much better mileage with the turbo. I have gotten a little more spoiled with these Cummins engines I have been using lately. But I bet if I were back with the HJ60 I would be a happy camper. A little old school but very decent IMO. Again the big thing is rust so watch for that and make sure the seller is honest with you about it.

Finally, diesel swaps are getting more common but they are not cheap or easy. They will run you at least $12K unless you are doing the swap yourself (which is a major major PITA in an 80 especially) and even then you will be at least $6-8K into it. The question is if its worth it to put that much into a used vehicle. Also 60s are a little rarer and have cult status, versus the 80s which are a dime a dozen. I like the suspension and drivetrain of the FZJ80s but the HJ60 still have some good points to it.

 

[ckkone]

What are they feeding you over there? If you are buying that stuff by the gallon, you have big problems.

Or is that the expedition size?

Too much fry sauce, jello and pink fruit salad?

 

[ChuckB]

Funny how it varies talking to CARB. The guy I talked to said the 4bt engine was a legit engine because it was 50 State approved and was used during the years of the Land Cruisers production. He was the one who brought it up also.

Blair

Well, that would explain the couple of 80s with 4BTs I have been reading about.

Robb, if you can pull off a 4BT in an 80 in Cali, I would go for it!!

 

[Grease Cruiser]

I would also vote for "whatever makes you happy". Sure, the HJ60 may seem like a step back for some people, but if a diesel 60 is what you want, then by all means get it....... if you have the funds of course.

I am one of the biggest "grass is greener" people there is when it comes to cars. I have had almost 40 of them since I began driving 15 years ago. Most of those have been Land Cruisers and Land Rovers.

My biggest concern was finding the "perfect" vehicle. Well, after awhile I came to the conclusion that it does not exist. So, I went for the "perfect combination" of vehicles. I am still working on it, I'll get back to you when I figure it out. One thing is for sure, I am having a lot of fun building them.

Oh, if you are looking for a 4BT 80, let me know. I have one and it is for sale. There I said it, it's official. I am rearranging my "combination" and the 80 does not fit anymore.

 

[robski]

I have been contemplating going down a tire size to improve power and MPG. It's all about the need vs. want.




This is what I ended up doing to my 80, from 33 down to 31. also I took out my slider and sold it since I don't do offroad a lot and it helps a little on the mileage.

I tried selling my 80 for a while now, barely get some responced to it and very low offer. I'll keep it for now.

If denero is not an issue, then keep the 80 and get that hj60.

 

[ShottsCruisers]

The 80 is still only used for trips and the occassional trip to the dog park.

It'll take along time to recoop your investment in fuel savings if you sell your 80 to get the 60 then build it. I'd keep the 80 until it dies.

On the other hand....IF....IF you're going to let the 80 go, I'd consider a more long-term investement. Looking at how you use the truck, I think a 100 would be the ticket. Even a loaded one like mine gets 13-14 around town and 14-15 on the road. It will be newer, have lower miles, require less maintenance. I know the up-front cost is more, however I'm looking "long term". Also....the safety factor of a 100 for your family is well noted.

Doron's "trip truck" is hard to beat!

 

[RAM5500 CAMPERTHING]

Hey Robb

As you know, i have owned, wheels, built, re-built, both, so here is my two cents.

Quick Jist:
-I started with a 91 80
-Had to sell it to pay for a divorce!
-Bought a 60 after divorce mess was over
-Installed OME kit
-Didnt like the ride (compared to the 80)
-Did a custom spring over swap
-Didnt like the ride
-Spend probably close to $2-3k experimenting with every spring combo possible, still didnt like the ride
-Ditched the 60
-Bought my current 80
-Messed around with a few differnt spring combos
-Got it dialed in damn near perfect now
-Rides like a benzo on washboards in mex doing 40-50mph!

Sure, gas milege sucks, but i wouldnt give up the comfy ride of my coil sprung 80 for a leaf sprung 60 anyday of the week regardless the mileage and "coolness factor".

Things to consider:
-You would probably get 1/2 of the $ that you have into your rig back
-You would still have leaf springs
-You would need to do all the same or similar mods to the 60 costing big $
-You would still have leaf springs
-80s are everywhere now
-You would still have leaf springs
-When traveling remotely, i would prefer to have similar rigs with me
-You would still have leaf springs
-Have a somewhat unique rig has a lot of drawbacks, break something in mex, chances are you will be with another 80 or 2, good luck finding 60 parts south of the border!
-You would still have leaf springs
-Having a diesel 60 in san diego is like having a bag of $ sitting in front of your house for the car thieves! Ask Brett!!!
-You would still have leaf springs

My .02

Here are some pics: